Intercooler and Air Filter

[Rastefaryan]

Looking at a couple simple mods or things left out i should say. I got a new holland 6.6 i6. Clearly they left out a few things. Had one of these some years back with the turbo and adding a cheap intercooler made a world of difference. Im thinking its 2.5 inch pipes am i correct? Second this air filter just urks me. Im looking at what appears to be a four inch pipe off the turbo. What i want to do is reduce this down to around a three inch pipe and completely open the filter up if not add a second filter. Will the reduction hurt me. Im not looking for power im looking to cool the air going into the motor down as much as possible. everyone knows these 6.6s dont like going uphills and this would help the motor run cooler.

[Ninjakitty]

I'll follow this as I also have a 6.6.

[Rastefaryan]

intercooler is an extremely simple install. top mount it with a couple radiator fans. this is how i did it on my truck which was a prior dump truck with the dump bed removed.

[Booyah45828]

A picture or two would be worth a thousand words for us.

To determine how effective an intercooler is you have to know the intake air temps that you're dealing with.

If they're sized and placed correctly, they'll usually net noticeable gains.

I'd have to see pictures of your current filter set up and how you want to modify it before I comment on that. However, most people when modifying their air intakes actually hurt performance rather then helping because they don't have a grasp on what's actually happening underhood.

[SolomonEagle]

Or you could just add a simple bolt on water/alcohol injection kit.

[Rastefaryan]

Originally Posted by Rastefaryan

Looking at a couple simple mods or things left out i should say. I got a new holland 6.6 i6. Clearly they left out a few things. Had one of these some years back with the turbo and adding a cheap intercooler made a world of difference. Im thinking its 2.5 inch pipes am i correct? Second this air filter just urks me. Im looking at what appears to be a four inch pipe off the turbo. What i want to do is reduce this down to around a three inch pipe and completely open the filter up if not add a second filter. Will the reduction hurt me. Im not looking for power im looking to cool the air going into the motor down as much as possible. everyone knows these 6.6s dont like going uphills and this would help the motor run cooler.

heres some pics of my set up after doing some research ive come to the conclusion i can use four inch pvc pipe which i will heat shield wrap

[Booyah45828]

The best thing you could do is find the cap for your air filter housing, unless it's sealed by the hood then it's fine. That right there will draw in hot under hood air which is no good.

I'm really not certain what you plan on replacing with 4" pvc, but what you have now draws cold air into the filter through the rubber boot on the right side of your 2nd image. If you seal off your opening to replace the air filter, you'd be about as good as you can get as far as fresh air is concerned.

[Rastefaryan]

my fault i neglected a few details. first off im adding a low profile hood scoop. im no artist but ive included a half ass mock drawing of my idea the theory is strong.the fans will also force air down into the engine adding more cooling.

[Booyah45828]

So you're replacing the large air filter with 2 cone type air filters open to the underhood air?

[Tango]

If you are thinking about K&N filters...you'd be much better off sticking with the factory system. K&N's flow REALLY well and are a top choice for racers. But...the reason they flow so well is that they are so open. They let anything through including lots of dirt. Not what you want if you plan on keeping an engine alive for very long.

[Rastefaryan]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

So you're replacing the large air filter with 2 cone type air filters open to the underhood air?

NO if you look at my mock drawing ive included there will be fans forcing air down through intercooler keeping that area cooler than anywhere else. it will still be exterior air from outside the engine compartment thanks to the complimenting of the hood scoop.

[Rastefaryan]

Originally Posted by Tango

If you are thinking about K&N filters...you'd be much better off sticking with the factory system. K&N's flow REALLY well and are a top choice for racers. But...the reason they flow so well is that they are so open. They let anything through including lots of dirt. Not what you want if you plan on keeping an engine alive for very long.

i totally agree with you about the cone filters being junk. theyre excellent flowing but what the question is what else is going through them when in many cases you can nearly see through them. i have found many alternatives including the aforementioned k & n and some near factory options by donaldson.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by Rastefaryan

NO if you look at my mock drawing ive included there will be fans forcing air down through intercooler keeping that area cooler than anywhere else. it will still be exterior air from outside the engine compartment thanks to the complimenting of the hood scoop.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

If the elements are open to the underhood air, I don't care how large of fans you put in there, it's still going to be hotter air then if you left it how it is. The only way that will change is if you create a housing of some sort that seperates the filter air from the engine air.

If you're confident in what you're doing, put a probe in the pipe before the turbo and compare your intake air temps before and after the change. Make it scientific by comparing ambient temps to filter temps to underhood temps.

Since you've mentioned hood, I presume you have a conventional bus? Have you looked at any research regarding the aerodynamics of busses?

Have a look at the pressure areas on a bus that are present when travelling through the air, You'll find the highest area of pressure is in front of the radiator. You'll also find that the hood of the bus actually has a dead/vacuum spot on top of it. I'm not sure how high this area goes above the hood, but any scoop that you create better be above and in front of that area or it will do the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

No amount of fans will effectively pull air against a vacuum. It's a fight that people with a RE buses wage every day.

[budbud7]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

I think you see where I'm going with this.

If the elements are open to the underhood air, I don't care how large of fans you put in there, it's still going to be hotter air then if you left it how it is. The only way that will change is if you create a housing of some sort that seperates the filter air from the engine air.

If you're confident in what you're doing, put a probe in the pipe before the turbo and compare your intake air temps before and after the change. Make it scientific by comparing ambient temps to filter temps to underhood temps.

Since you've mentioned hood, I presume you have a conventional bus? Have you looked at any research regarding the aerodynamics of busses?

Have a look at the pressure areas on a bus that are present when travelling through the air, You'll find the highest area of pressure is in front of the radiator. You'll also find that the hood of the bus actually has a dead/vacuum spot on top of it. I'm not sure how high this area goes above the hood, but any scoop that you create better be above and in front of that area or it will do the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

No amount of fans will effectively pull air against a vacuum. It's a fight that people with a RE buses wage every day.

Are you saying that REs have a vacuum in their engine compartment?

[WARGEAR]

RE busses have a low pressure zone in their engine compartment since the air there isn’t being moved like the air around the bus when it’s in motion. This they cool significantly differently than an FE bus

[Rastefaryan]

Originally Posted by WARGEAR

RE busses have a low pressure zone in their engine compartment since the air there isn’t being moved like the air around the bus when it’s in motion. This they cool significantly differently than an FE bus

fe and re? im thinking front engine and rear engine. mine is front engine

[Booyah45828]

I'm not sure if there is a vacuum present in the actual engine compartment, but the air behind the bus is definitely in a low pressure state compared to the ambient air pressure. Pretty sure the air pressure on the sides is also below ambient, just not as low as what's behind it.

FE and RE are terms for flat nose (transit) buses.
FE is front engine, RE is rear engine.

A dog nose (conventional) bus always has the engine in the front.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Have a look at the pressure areas on a bus that are present when travelling through the air, You'll find the highest area of pressure is in front of the radiator. You'll also find that the hood of the bus actually has a dead/vacuum spot on top of it. I'm not sure how high this area goes above the hood, but any scoop that you create better be above and in front of that area or it will do the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

My B3800 has the intake air inlet just below the windshield. It seemed strange to me until I read that the near-vertical windshield creates a high pressure area. That intake is taking advantage of the increased pressure while minimizing ducting.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

I'm not sure if there is a vacuum present in the actual engine compartment, but the air behind the bus is definitely in a low pressure state compared to the ambient air pressure. Pretty sure the air pressure on the sides is also below ambient, just not as low as what's behind it.

FE and RE are terms for flat nose (transit) buses.
FE is front engine, RE is rear engine.

A dog nose (conventional) bus always has the engine in the front.

you are correct about the air pressure along the sides being lower - I had a nice tow from a semi while driving my overloaded one ton pulling a trailer, and didn't get any over spray on my windshield - lol - I was in the lane beside the semi just a few feet back of the front of it - a lot safer than tailgating too

[WARGEAR]

Originally Posted by jazty

My B3800 has the intake air inlet just below the windshield. It seemed strange to me until I read that the near-vertical windshield creates a high pressure area. That intake is taking advantage of the increased pressure while minimizing ducting.

That’s how “cowl-induction works. Essentially a siphon effect is created in the airflow near the owl area thus forcing more air down into the air intake. Think big block 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle type hood but on a shorter/wider scale. My 3800 is just like yours.