Is this too rusty?

[Sevier]

Hi Folks -

Learning what kind of rust is "surface" and which is deeper and to avoid. I've read plenty of descriptions, but its difficult to translate into a visual reality. Having a picture labeled will give me a sense of what I'm judging - anyone mind commenting on the attached images?


Engine.pdf

Underbelly 1.pdf

Underbelly 2.pdf

[CHEESE_WAGON]

I've noticed that PDFs largely fail in downloads through this site. These are having the same issue. You might want to try uploading JPGs or something similar.

[Sevier]

Trying with jpegs

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Doesn't look bad to me. Kinda need a better close-up of the crossmembers, but the frame rails look okay. Maybe some sand blasting / painting is in order, but that's not much worse than surface rust. What's the last pic of? Looks like the top view of the engine compartment of a front engine flatnose, possibly a DT466. And what exactly is this bus and its setup / year / make / model?

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Doesn't look bad to me. Maybe some sand blasting / painting is in order, but that's not much worse than surface rust. What's the last pic of? Looks like the open engine cover of a front engine flatnose, possibly a DT466. And what exactly is this bus and its setup / year / make / model?

Its a 2001 International TransAm DT466, Alison 2000 or 3000 (he thinks) w air brakes, 12 window flat nose w 140K miles.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by Sevier

Its a 2001 International TransAm DT466, Alison 2000 or 3000 (he thinks) w air brakes, 12 window flat nose w 140K miles.

That would be AmTran, actually (Navistar bought them out at some point).

2001 = pre EGR / pre DPF / pre DEF = GREAT start.
Air brakes = even better.
This appears to be a front-engine, am I correct? If so, food for thought, if you buy this one, you may want to DynaMat the inside of the engine cover to reduce heat and noise.
DT466 is a proven engine, but I believe I've heard about some kind of common thing with them, either to do with the front timing cover or front main seal, perhaps someone can clarify this.

Allison 2000 will have a T-handle shifter, shift pattern should be R N D 4 2 1.
Allison 3000 is the basic series of the MD-3060 AFAIK, this will be a single-digit display with push buttons for R, N, D and up/down or +\- for manual gear shifting. Should show a 5 on a skoolie in D (may look like S initially), they are six-speeds, but sixth is locked out. Can possibly be unlocked by request for all six forward gears.

[Sevier]

AmTran! And thankyou, very helpful. I havent seen it in person yet, but I can ask for pictures. Yes, front engine, and we wont be driving it much, it will be a home on a farm, we both have clinical jobs that require us to stay put. And even though we wont be driving it much (just once across country when we move in a few years), we are unsure we want to go so long. Those 10 and 11 window flat noses (more useable space with less exterior length then dog noses) are hard to find w decent packages attached.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

This one seems like a reasonably decent bus, price depending. The rust seems fairly minor (as I said, better close-ups of the crossmembers would help more in determining the extent), but a premium engine and trans setup. Based on what I see, the rust isn't bad, but you may want to walk the floor from front to rear and bounce a bit to test its integrity. Flat-noses seemingly tend to have a tendency to rust in the front wheelwells, and the floor between in particular, as well as the footwell stepping up and in.

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

That would be AmTran, actually (Navistar bought them out at some point).

2001 = pre EGR / pre DPF / pre DEF = GREAT start.
Air brakes = even better.
This appears to be a front-engine, am I correct? If so, food for thought, if you buy this one, you may want to DynaMat the inside of the engine cover to reduce heat and noise.
DT466 is a proven engine, but I believe I've heard about some kind of common thing with them, either to do with the front timing cover or front main seal, perhaps someone can clarify this.

Allison 2000 will have a T-handle shifter, shift pattern should be R N D 4 2 1.
Allison 3000 is the basic series of the MD-3060 AFAIK, this will be a single-digit display with push buttons for R, N, D and up/down or +\- for manual gear shifting. Should show a 5 on a skoolie in D (may look like S initially), they are six-speeds, but sixth is locked out. Can possibly be unlocked by request for all six forward gears.

Oh, and, is a 2004 TC2000 pre emissions and electrical? I see convicting data on that, and I thought they started w emissions and electrics in 2003/2004. The person who answers the emails on govdeals.com says it is pre emissions and pre electric, but I dont know how much confidence I have in their answers.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by Sevier

Oh, and, is a 2004 TC2000 pre emissions and electrical? I see convicting data on that, and I thought they started w emissions and electrics in 2003/2004. The person who answers the emails on govdeals.com says it is pre emissions and pre electric, but I dont know how much confidence I have in their answers.

2004 may or may not have EGR. The may / may not depends on when the chassis / engine were built. Some are built nearly a year before coachwork is done. Hence it is possible to have a bus titled as a 2004 that has 2003 mechanicals built before the mandate. They go by when the engine was manufactured, basically. So it's possible that some 2004s won't have it. I seem to remember hearing about a few 2002-2003s that had EGR, but not many.

However, even if equipped, EGR alone is not nearly as problematic as adding DPF and DEF (2007+ and 2009-2010+, respectively). I'd buy an EGR-only model before I'd buy one with the added crap of DPF and DEF systems. But I absolutely would not buy any MaxxForce or 04+ PowerStroke equipped models.

If you want to PM me the link, I might able to figure out something from pictures, depending on what is posted.

[musigenesis]

Rust is not too bad here. The exhaust is the most vulnerable thing under here and it looks OK; everything else could be treated, not exactly "easily" since anything under the bus is a pain, or it could really just be left as it is. But the rust is at a level that suggests the body above will have some damage if any of the windows or lights have leaked (which they all do). You'd need to see pics of that to evaluate the rust potential, and even then it's easy to hide rust damage in photos - my bus looked shiny and new in pics, and post #2 in my build thread shows what the floor was actually like underneath.

[EastCoastCB]

Sorta subjective "too much".
Its rustier than what I buy, but others don't hesitate as long as its not swiss cheese. On a 1-10 of rusty just based on the pics I'd give it a 5.

[Native]

Based on the pictures, it looks fair. A few pictures of the rear door and the rear wheel well areas from the outside (and inside) would be very helpful in determining any potential rust issues.

[Sevier]

This is all so helpful, thankyou everyone!