Lil’Bus needs help. Engine cranking hardly, no start ... :’(

[M@tt]

Hiiiiiiiigh all !!

We’ve been roaming around the coast quite a bit with out problems.

After warming up the engine for 5 minutes yesterday, the engine stoped suddenly running without making any weird noise.

Wasn't quite at ideal temp yet, but still had some heat from our ride a hour-ish earlier.

Added 2 quarts of oil this morning. No change. Only drove 1500 miles since last oil change.

Still cranking, wont fire. Kinda sounds like the batteries would be low, but they are fine. My good jumper pack wont change anything.

Does some one has a clue why the engine would stall out of no where after just idling for 5 minutes. And not start back.

0 DTC ; brand new glowplugs ; new CPSensor ; 1500 miles on fuel filter

:’(

Thank you all for any attention

Edit: Lil’Bus is 7.3 from 2002 (160k miles)

[CHEESE_WAGON]

You double posted this... I replied to the first one with suggestions...

[M@tt]

Hey Cheese,

Thanks for pointing out the fuel quality issues going on.
Im on to clean a fuel leak i’ve noticed from the back side of the passenger engine block, fuel does leak to much from there in my opinion. Just not quite convinced that would cause my issue, though i hear you about air in the gas lines, so im cleansing that ring.

When im done cleansing and tightening back that line to the block, is there a proper way to purge the lines from air ??

Since im not sure this is drivetrain related, i guess it might be better to have visible in the more general mechanical issue thread.

Thanks again for the suggestions and attention.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Anything compromising fuel pressure or allowing air in the lines is a problem. What you've described sounds like cranking speed issues as well. I would replace that O-ring, cleaning it may not fix it.

[M@tt]

Im not sure what you are calling cranking speed :/ The crankshaft position sensor is brand new.

I’ll check that ring, if still leaking, i’ll go find one at the shop.
What is the O-ring part of this ? The hole “bolt-joint” ??

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Crankshaft sensor has nothing to do with the speed at which the starter motor turns the engine. If the starter or batteries are weak, this will cause problems starting, especially with a diesel.

And yes, the O-ring can cause fuel pressurization problems and allow the system to suck air in.

If your leak is at the part your arrow is pointing to, that could be an injector, and a leaking injector line will certainly cause problems. Even if it's a supply line to the injection system, anything that introduces air into the system is a problem.

[M@tt]

Gonna scratch my hair off of my head ..

So after putting back the o-ring clean, hardly cranks (probably weak starter) , no more fuel leaking from there or anywhere i can see.

If the engine died on me because of a bubble getting in the lines, what can i do to assert that diagnosis ? Can i fix that ?

Is there a way i could test the starter even though i thought diesel had none ??

Sorry for being so demanding.

[cadillackid]

make sure your batteries are charged and that all the wires are good..



I believe on the fords like on my IH 7.3, there is a large wire coming from the battery to a big lug on the starter.. starter is underneath just to the passenger side of the oil pan.. more than once ive seen wire get loose on that large lug and cause slow cranking..



also turning the key on / off runs the Glowplugs a lot.. this will run the batteries down in pretty short order.. so make sure you have a good charge on the batteries..



Diesels have Starters, they dont have Spark plugs..



-Christopher

[cadillackid]

also if one of your batteries are actually bad.. it wpuld put out low voltage and eat up any power your Jump Bix is trying to offer.. I havent had much success starting my 7.3 from a jump.. it usually needs a good charge on good batteries to spin it over.. im not sure about the ford but i know the IH 7.3 requires 160 RPM of spin for the computer to fire the engine.. the little bugger cranks fast.. if you have a battery charger that puts out say 10-20 amps.. put it on and let the batteries charge overnight..

[M@tt]

As usual, im stranded off the side of the road with 0 reception and no access to regular electricity.

Gonna check out those lugs. Both my batteries read 12.5v. Almost exclusively cranking with my 100amp batterie booster when i get stranded like this.

Thanks for re-situating me around that starter. Sounds like something isn't working right down there.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I havent had much success starting my 7.3 from a jump.. it usually needs a good charge on good batteries to spin it over.. im not sure about the ford but i know the IH 7.3 requires 160 RPM of spin for the computer to fire the engine.. the little bugger cranks fast...

160, or 1600?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

160, or 1600?

160 RPM of crank by the starter before the computer sends the signal to the injectors.. theres also a minimum HPOP value too. but he hasnt given any reason to believe the HPOP isnt pumping..



1600 RPM from a starter.. heck you'd have an electric bus


I guess I should clarify.. 160 ENGINE RPM. the starter motor spinds much faster

[M@tt]

After checking all the battery and starter bolts were tight, still hard to crank.

I did notice my fuel gauge drops of a 1/4 tank every crankshaft turn.

Sounds like my fuel line might be clogged some where.

Not quite sure what the procedure is to test my fuel line to know if the strainer in my tank is broken or if the problem is somewhere else.

...

:’(

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

12.3 is weak for a diesel battery.
might not be a fuel problem?
it could be that you have cranked enough that some of your cylinders have built compression and you are locked in compression stroke that your batteries are not strong enough any more to overcome.
a portable jump box doesnt have enough umph for a two battery diesel.
try disconnecting each battery and measure individual volt after charge and reconnect the stronger one and try jumping through it.
one other thing you could attempt if stranded on the side of the road is to bypass the batteries.
disconnect the cables on both and make sure the secondary cables dont touch each other or any metal and hook your jump vehicle of adequate/comparable size directly to the battery cables without the batteries connected.
if it works once started the alternator runs everything and that will get you off the road and to a parts store to test your batteries.
if they are paired together then they need to be replaced in pairs because this is a true case of the weaker dragging the stronger down to there level
wish you luck.

[M@tt]

Thanks !

Batteries are disconnected, sitting for the night. Will read voltage of each one in the morning.
Parked in a chilly spot so if something is wrong with them cells, should read it on volt meter.
Pretty sure they are fine though, both were changed and manufactured 12/19.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Not sure a battery or loose connection at a battery would cause a sudden shutdown, that points to a fuel quality problem. Not saying that an electrical issue could not cause this, but if it were electrical, vibration would cause the connection to come and go, which would allow to start back up.

[roach711]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Crankshaft sensor has nothing to do with the speed at which the starter motor turns the engine. If the starter or batteries are weak, this will cause problems starting, especially with a diesel.

And yes, the O-ring can cause fuel pressurization problems and allow the system to suck air in.

If your leak is at the part your arrow is pointing to, that could be an injector, and a leaking injector line will certainly cause problems. Even if it's a supply line to the injection system, anything that introduces air into the system is a problem.

The fuel line in the picture is the supply line running from the fuel filter canister to the fuel rail in the head. It supplies all 4 injectors on that side of the engine. There is a similar fuel line going to the front of the driver's side head. Air in that line can cause the engine to run rough until the air is cleared out of the fuel rail. The folks over at the Ford Powerstroke forum say the cure for air in the rail is to "drive it like you rented it" until the air is gone.
The fuel filter canister holds pressure after the engine is shut down so I wouldn't think a small fuel leak would allow much air into the line.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Doesn't take much air to bring it down with the fuel pressure requirements of a diesel, though.

[M@tt]

Thanks again to you all !

Battery tensions did bot move a bit during the night. 12.39v & 12.54v for them two, just like yesterday evening.
I read a long time ago that a dead battery cell would keep one from properly holding its tension overnight.

Is it a thing to unhook the flexible fuel lines from top of fuel tank and drop them in a gallon jug of fuel to see if it cranks any better ??

[M@tt]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Not sure a battery or loose connection at a battery would cause a sudden shutdown, that points to a fuel quality problem. Not saying that an electrical issue could not cause this, but if it were electrical, vibration would cause the connection to come and go, which would allow to start back up.

If there is no more fuel/air leak, and the batteries are ok, what could make the cranking of the engine so hard and the fuel gauge act so weird ? I understand it would feel more of a chaotique and intermittent problem, more then a sudden and permanent one.

Thank you