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03-17-2020, 03:12 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
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Limp Mode
First time poster here. 2004 International with a t444e and Allison 2000 transmission. I’m stuck in limp mode - reverse and 3rd (i think). I’m throwing a 141 code. I replaced the output speed sensor but still stuck in limp. I don’t have the scanner to clear the code, so I’m not sure if the computer “knows” i changed the sensor. I tested the battery to see if the alternator was pumping what it should, but it’s only reading 13.85 with engine running. Not sure if that is acceptable, and if not, if that is contributing to the problem. I’m open to suggestions. Appreciate the help.
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03-17-2020, 03:16 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,000
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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No expert but I found this: T444E Engine Control System
141 Vehicle Speed Signal Out Of Range Low
I dunno what that means.
Edit: I guess you knew this already, since you replaced the speed sensor.
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03-17-2020, 03:24 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,000
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Also found this T444E diagnostics manual (warning, very large, probably don't want to download it on a phone): http://www.blackwire.com/~bjordan/Te...0optimized.pdf
The section on 141 says this:
Quote:
FLASH CODE 141
ATA CODE PID 84 FMI 4
VPM: VSSORL
This code is set when the VPM detects an
out-of-range low (ORl) signal from the vehicle
speed sensor.
WIRING CAUSE: VSS Sensor circuit between the
VPM and Sensor, shorted to ground or open.
If this code is active, perform Testing VPM to Sensor
Circuits on page 241 .
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The test on pp 241-242 is pretty long and complicated, but it doesn't make any mention of having to clear the code; seems once the problem is fixed the code will clear itself?
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03-17-2020, 03:47 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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so you are in LIMP and no VSS to the computer.. the VSS signal on the 2004 is provided not by the sensor directly but by the TCM.. I would bet that either you lost a Trans / TCM fuse or wire.. or your TCM is bad altogether. so that the VSS signal is Low out of range throwing the 141 code on the IH side.. that 141 is an IH code not an Allison code..
I would start with Trans fuses and TCM wiring.. 13.8 volts is very normal.. in fact its nice N high..
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03-17-2020, 06:47 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
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Thank you. Excuse my ignorance, but can you point me to what the TCM is and where i can find it. Also, would the transmission fuses be in the main fuse panel? Appreciate the help.
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03-17-2020, 07:04 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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if this is a conventional bus the trans fuses are in the panel on the dash (not the one on the outside under driver window).. they should be labelled as Transmission and / or driveline.. there are 2 of them if I remember right.
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03-17-2020, 07:09 PM
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#7
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
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Thank you. I’ll look for them tomorrow.
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03-18-2020, 09:57 AM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,778
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
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HEY cadillac
nice work man.
william
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03-18-2020, 10:05 AM
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#9
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
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It’s working. Turns out is was a 10 amp fuse labeled Elect Trans Feed in the chassis fuse block. One of those ones where you can’t tell it’s blown without testing with multimeter. Thank you so much for your guidance - much appreciated.
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03-19-2020, 12:54 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Way to go, Cadillackid!
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03-19-2020, 12:59 AM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,080
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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good work but this makes me glad i am obd free.
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03-19-2020, 02:54 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoore6856
good work but this makes me glad i am obd free.
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So is the OP ...buses run J1939 with some J1708, not OBDII.
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