|
|
04-26-2018, 06:39 PM
|
#41
|
Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 17
|
I think that is what they are trying to say, the engine is ok for a skoolie as long as I don't force it. What I like about it is the suppose fuel "economy".
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 06:39 PM
|
#42
|
Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 495,270,340,9,7,28,66
Posts: 103
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC 2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 65?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach
The Cummins 6BT/ISB has gone through a progression of changes and improvements over the years.
The first mechanical versions were 5.9L and had 12-valves in the head.
The next significant change was going to a 24-valve head with electronics.
The last significant change was upping the displacement to 6.7L.
Of course, the 6.7L version with 24-valves is going to perform very differently from the 5.9L with 12-vavles.
|
I think I have the 12 valve, its a 97'. I pulled a early 90's mercury cougar on a trailer across some moderate grades with almost no noticeable difference (MT643). My bus has a chair lift in the back if that is of any significance. It tops out at 62 on flat land, that's fast enough for me in something that big. Not as powerful as others but MPGs were also a consideration for me.
I'm definitely about to google twin turbo busses anyway though
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 06:42 PM
|
#43
|
Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 495,270,340,9,7,28,66
Posts: 103
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC 2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 65?
|
It's apples and oranges to compare that motor in a truck compared to a bus that weighs 3-4x's as much. The 5.9 is fine for getting up and down the road if you're not in a hurry
Another thing I got from this site; "never be in a hurry in your bus"
Quote:
Originally Posted by AraS
I think that is what they are trying to say, the engine is ok for a skoolie as long as I don't force it. What I like about it is the suppose fuel "economy".
|
Bingo
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 07:00 PM
|
#44
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
stupid question , how do I put a photo in? it asks for a url?
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 07:12 PM
|
#45
|
Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 150
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
|
Top row to right of smiley is attachments (paper clip). Then navigate to image on your computer.
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 07:58 PM
|
#46
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
5.9 cummins with a light load.... 25,000lbs
My bus is just over 17,000lbs
|
|
|
04-26-2018, 07:59 PM
|
#47
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
Thanks, just tried it, adding a photo
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 01:19 AM
|
#48
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 2,233
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie
5.9 cummins with a light load.... 25,000lbs
My bus is just over 17,000lbs
|
While the 5.9L 6BT in a bus is basically the same engine that was put into a Dodge pickup the ratings of the engine are very different.
In a school bus the highest HP rating I can remember seeing in a 5.9L 12-valve mechanical was 210 HP. Moving up to the 24-valve I saw some 250 HP versions.
At the same time in Dodge pickups the HP rating was over 300 and going up all the time.
So while a Dodge 1-ton with a Cummins diesel is a very capable truck for hauling insanely large loads a bus of the same vintage is going to need some serious upgrades in order to haul the same insanely large loads.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 06:26 AM
|
#49
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
I am sure you are correct that the buses did not get the same HP. But.. it is clear these engine are capable of so much more. And reasonable amounts more are had by tuning the injection pump. If you want BIG power then yes more mods are needed, like turbos upgrades.
My truck is rated at 215hp, and I have not changed it, still stock with 360,000 miles
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 08:09 AM
|
#50
|
Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
|
Below are the notes I got from one of the really savvy tuners over on 4BTSwaps.Com.
Note that these tweaks apply specifically to all mechanical, P-Pump Cummins B Series engines...
If you haven't already, install a 3000 RPM governor spring. Although you won't be running that speed, it helps with gear shifts. Second, consider changing the torque plate in the pump to a #10. That one has decent manors and can provide a significant power increase when needed. Third, adjust the timing to 16 deg. No higher or you risk blowing a head gasket. That will help with power and may improve fuel mileage as well. Last thing is possibly change the fuel overflow valve in the pump. Those things have a spring that gets weaker over time and can cause a loss of power. There are aftermarket items which are vast improvements over the stock unit. All of these changes are not expensive and can be done with the pump in place. A turbo boost elbow would also be advisable to help tune the boost level to take advantage of the new power. Your 130 HP engine can quickly become 200 HP without any bad effects on the engine or sacrifice of fuel economy. You'd basically be making the engine more efficient. And of course the power can go up even further. About 250 HP would be the limits for a stock turbo and injectors. After that point you'd be looking at other mods and don't think you're looking in that direction. A solid 200 HP would feel like you had a big block gas engine in there.
Of all the changes I mentioned, the timing adjustment would probably the hardest. That one requires loosening the the nut on the pump gear and a few special tools to accomplish the job. The governor spring would be #1 in order of importance. Then the torque plate and boost elbow. The change in timing would probably be one of the last things, but can have a huge impact on performance. Changing the overflow valve can be done in a very short time. It's also the cheapest. All the changes may be done for around $300 in part cost, depending on how well you shop. Probably the most bang for the buck on a P pump engine.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 08:34 AM
|
#51
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
Just a quick note on governor springs, sometimes you can get lucky and not change the spring but adjust the max engine speed screw and get 3200 rpm max. This gives power through 3000 rpm's before defueling, with a total limit of 3200.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 08:36 AM
|
#52
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
Not being picky but I always do the overflow valve first
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 09:36 AM
|
#53
|
Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Huntington Beach CA.
Posts: 939
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: T/C 2000 28 foot Handy Bus
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Mechanical
Rated Cap: 2
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg
You can't go much higher than around 210 hp with that transmission.
If you do you run the risk of exceeding the input torque limit and that could get expensive.
|
ALLISON AT 545 SPECIFICATIONS
General Purpose Truck and Motorhome Rating
Net input power 235 hp (175 kW)
Net input torque 445 lb-ft (603 N·m)
Vehicle weight Up to 30,000 lbs (13,608 kg) GVW or GC
These are the specs that I have seen most everywhere. That rating is for up to 30000 lbs gross weight . My feelings are if you are 10000 lbs lighter than the gross weight rating and with additional dedicated transmission cooling than those HP and Torque figures are very conservative.
Time will tell good thing a rebuilt AT 545 is only $1200 bucks.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 10:55 AM
|
#54
|
Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivetboy
ALLISON AT 545 SPECIFICATIONS
General Purpose Truck and Motorhome Rating
Net input power 235 hp (175 kW)
Net input torque 445 lb-ft (603 N·m)
Vehicle weight Up to 30,000 lbs (13,608 kg) GVW or GC
These are the specs that I have seen most everywhere. That rating is for up to 30000 lbs gross weight . My feelings are if you are 10000 lbs lighter than the gross weight rating and with additional dedicated transmission cooling than those HP and Torque figures are very conservative.
Time will tell good thing a rebuilt AT 545 is only $1200 bucks.
|
It's the input torque you have to watch. That's the one that will hurt you if you go over.
You rarely run maximum power, but the engine produces maximum torque every time it hits the right rpm.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 11:06 AM
|
#55
|
Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,325
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
|
a 5.9 at 215 hp is right there at 440ft lbs torque. so anything less and you have room within factory specs to go up to this.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 01:38 PM
|
#56
|
Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivetboy
ALLISON AT 545 SPECIFICATIONS
General Purpose Truck and Motorhome Rating
Net input power 235 hp (175 kW)
Net input torque 445 lb-ft (603 N·m)
Vehicle weight Up to 30,000 lbs (13,608 kg) GVW or GC
These are the specs that I have seen most everywhere. That rating is for up to 30000 lbs gross weight . My feelings are if you are 10000 lbs lighter than the gross weight rating and with additional dedicated transmission cooling than those HP and Torque figures are very conservative.
Time will tell good thing a rebuilt AT 545 is only $1200 bucks.
|
A used takeout 545 is cheap or even free!
If I were gonna have to spend $1200 on a 545 I'd pony up and spend the extra $ to upgrade to a 643 or even a 2000 maybe.
|
|
|
04-27-2018, 01:54 PM
|
#57
|
Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Huntington Beach CA.
Posts: 939
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: T/C 2000 28 foot Handy Bus
Engine: Cummins 5.9 Mechanical
Rated Cap: 2
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
A used takeout 545 is cheap or even free!
If I were gonna have to spend $1200 on a 545 I'd pony up and spend the extra $ to upgrade to a 643 or even a 2000 maybe.
|
That would mean possibly redrilling the bellhosing for runout. What a pain So the the plan is down the road is to buy a donor bus with a lock up trans and have my way with the engine and then swap them out. But thats a ways out as I am still putting this one back in.
|
|
|
04-29-2018, 09:10 AM
|
#58
|
Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
|
Definitely need to know what SAE bolt pattern you have on your engine before diving into a new tranny. From what I understand, the vast majority of mechanical Cummins engines are SAE 3...but...you need to know for sure. There are a number of aftermarket adapters for some combinations that are fairly cheap. If you have to have a "one-off" made...that's gonna be expensive.
For the record...my old 4BT is SAE 3 and the new Allison 2200MH is also SAE 3.
|
|
|
04-29-2018, 02:25 PM
|
#59
|
Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Definitely need to know what SAE bolt pattern you have on your engine before diving into a new tranny. From what I understand, the vast majority of mechanical Cummins engines are SAE 3...but...you need to know for sure. There are a number of aftermarket adapters for some combinations that are fairly cheap. If you have to have a "one-off" made...that's gonna be expensive.
For the record...my old 4BT is SAE 3 and the new Allison 2200MH is also SAE 3.
|
the allison 1000 / 2000 have removeable bells and can be built with either..
the AT545 bell is part of the case and is SAE 3
the MT643 bell is part of the case and is SAE 2
-Christopher
|
|
|
04-29-2018, 03:16 PM
|
#60
|
Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntmanmitch
I think I have the 12 valve, its a 97'. I pulled a early 90's mercury cougar on a trailer across some moderate grades with almost no noticeable difference (MT643). My bus has a chair lift in the back if that is of any significance. It tops out at 62 on flat land, that's fast enough for me in something that big. Not as powerful as others but MPGs were also a consideration for me.
I'm definitely about to google twin turbo busses anyway though
|
Sounds like my bus.
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|