New Skoolie Fan needs advice on first conversion make and model!

[SkooliJunki]

Good afternoon Skoolie community! I am so happy to get to know you all. I am finally ready to fulfill my long time dream of buying and converting a school bus. As a former massage therapist, I don't have much mechanical experience; however, I excel at body mechanics, physics and geometry. I've scored in the top 96% on the ASVAB test for mechanical aptitude. I have basic knowledge / experience about home improvement and using power tools from working with my parents on their houses. I am also a hands on learner and a quick study in all things mechanical / structural.

I have done a lot of research on the conversion part of the project, but choosing a bus still seems like Greek to me. I would greatly appreciate any insight that may point me in the direction of the right bus for me!

I am looking for a mid size bus because I think it would be easier to maneuver than a long bus, get better gas mileage, and be able to access more places and parks. I am a huge fan of hiking and all things out doors. This bus is for me and my pets, cats and a dog, and maybe a partner in the future. I am quite a minimalist when it comes to interior design, and plan to maximize the available living space and make room for guests. Any ideas on space saving tips would also be appreciated.

Right now I am in FL, looking for a rust free bus. I will be moving it to OK this summer to work on the conversion, where a friend has invited me to stay on their farm while I build. I am considering possibly joining https://wwoof.net/ to live around the country as I learn about agriculture and farming. I plan to study permaculture, massage therapy, and eco friendly / cob building techniques. I enjoy all seasons so I plan to install high quality insulation to be able to enjoy both hot and cold weather. Yay! Snow shoe hiking! Any tips on making the skoolie more winter/summer friendly would also be appreciated.

But enough about my conversion plans. I am ready to buy a bus and am still not sure which one to get. I would like one that is better for highway / long trips. Can those also climb hills / mountains? I really want to see the Rockies and the Smokies, but I'm more focused on getting around the country and finding a place to build a cob house. I am not planning on travelling often, maybe changing location once a month so, and am thinking of the best bus for long term use / ease and cost of maintenance for the next 5-10 years. I will eventually build a cob house for myself, but would still like to use my skoolie often. I may eventually upgrade to a skoolie conversion 2.0, but would not like to do so for the next few years at least. I think i would prefer having the engine in the front and have a back door, but have heard they can be loud and hot. Would an engine in the rear be better?

Since I do enjoy mechanics and working with my hands I would like to find a bus that is easy to maintain, and one I can learn to do some maintenance myself.

In your opinion, what is the most reliable midsized school bus to get for a conversion? What is the easiest to work with / learn about / maintain? Easiest / most comfortable to drive?

I have given myself 2-4 weeks to find and buy the bus, get the seats removed and load up my stuff before heading to OK for the summer. My budget is max $5000 for the bus, and $5000 for the conversion. I plan to remove the seats and register it as a personal vehicle until it can be built out. I'm hoping to purchase one directly from a school bus garage instead of an auction. I plan to inspect the bus and also find a professional or skoolie expert to inspect it as well. I don't like the idea of buying from an auction sight unseen. I would like one with a taller roof as I want extra room for insulation and taller company. I am considering a roof raise, but that seems like a steep learning curve on top of a first time conversion. I'm 5'6". It would also be a bonus to find an activity bus with storage.

I would love to hear any recommendations and why you think this would be the right bus for my conversion. I would like to choose 2-4 different models as my top choices in order to compare my options and make an informed purchase. If you've responded to this post, I greatly appreciate the time and effort involved in sharing your experience and expertise. Thank you so much!
I look forward to meeting some of you on my travels!

A new skoolie junkie!

[SkooliJunki]

So I’m comparing a CAT 3126E engine with an Allison MD3060 transmission, and a T444E engine with an Allison 2000 transmission. They’re both 65-70 passenger dog nose front end, similar age and mileage. Any thoughts on on longevity, expense, wear and tear, ease of driving on the highway?

[Rucker]

You might consider a short bus, and a minimal conversion-shortest distance to getting on the road.

Then you can plan, and complete your skoolie conversion education before making expensive decisions you'll need to live with for a while.

[SkooliJunki]

Thanks! Good idea. I’m more the measure thrice cut once kind of person. A short bus is too cramped and expensive for me. I’d rather leave more space inside.

[SkooliJunki]

I think the CAT sounds great but I heard they’re expensive and difficult to repair. What about a DT466e with an Allison 2000?

[CHEESE_WAGON]

You might peruse the threads linked in my sig before making a decision. My biggest key piece of advice per your post would be "haste makes waste". Something you need to understand, there is no need to rush in choosing your bones for this project. If you just find one and jump on it, odds will be good that you will not be 100% happy with your choice.

Three key points:

If done right, skoolies are not cheaper than an RV, but they will be better, with the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself (I myself cannot tackle such a project due to health issues).

School buses are commercial vehicles intended to haul schoolchildren at low speed, and while conversion and retitling as an RV renders them exempt from CDL requirements, it does not change what they physically are. I would suggest a CDL course or at least studying a CDL manual for any skoolie, and strongly recommend a course for anything over 9,000 lbs GVWR or 25 feet in length. Anything over 15 passenger or 26,000 GVWR will require a CDL to drive home unless previously retitled as an RV (this is NOT something that can be done on-the-fly by simply removing seats).

A continuation of the previous point -- You are endeavoring to convert a 12,000-lb brick designed to carry schoolchildren at low speed into a motorhome. Most were never designed to cruise interstates at 70, and even if they are capable of it, they will be hard on the wallet due to poor fuel economy. Many cannot due to limitations of the mechanicals, even if the seller says it can, it doesn't mean you should.

Example -- A Blue Bird All-American with an 8.3 Cummins, Allison MD3060 (one of the premium packages) and a 4.56 rear gear can get 7-9 mpg cruising at 70 mph, turning just about 2100-2200 rpm. The same bus with a more typical 6.13 or 5.29 rear axle gear would get 4 mpg and scream for mercy at 65 and 70 mph, respectively. Cummins may rate the 8.3 as safe to 2,750 rpm, but in my experience, it's just not a good idea to push any diesel much past 2,000 rpm, no matter what the manufacturer says it is safe to. And most are most efficient at around 1,800 rpm.

Case in point, a bus I recently transported (T444E/2000 Allison/5.29 axle) displayed the following economy:

63 mph (2300 rpm) - 7.93 mpg
60 mph (2100 rpm) - 9.63 mpg
58 mph (2000 rpm) - 10.85 mpg
55 mph (1800 rpm) - 11.7 mpg

Even 2,000 rpm will mean lower speeds with 90% of the buses out there -- with the 0.74:1 of an MD3060, 6.13 gives you 44 mph, 5.29 gives you 51. The Allison 2000's 0.75:1 fifth gear will be the same with each respective gear ratio. An MT643 or AT545 will have a 1.00:1 ratio which will further limit cruising speed.

More RPM means more heat and more stress on the engine. Also consider that most of these engines will have the equivalent of much more mileage than the odometer suggests (discussed in on of the linked threads in my sig). And more heat isn't good for automatic transmissions, either. This goes quadruple-quintuple-sextuple for models with the Allison AT545 transmission. The 'Buyer's Guide' thread will explain why.

Other things you should know about diesels. Cold weather means anti-gel fuel additives and getting creative to assist the engine in hard starts. Learn what a fuel-water separator does, how to use it, and get in the habit of doing so.

But I digress. Do you research before choosing and buying a bus, there are way too many tales of woe on here from folks who did not do their research and either bought a good bus that was otherwise way wrong for them, or a completely bad platform in the first place. Good luck, and welcome to the community!

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by SkooliJunki

I think the CAT sounds great but I heard they’re expensive and difficult to repair. What about a DT466e with an Allison 2000?

Welcome and good luck with your search.
Just out of curiosity where did you hear that? Someone on the internet said so. Here's my opinion, when it breaks, and they all break they are all expensive and hard to repair. These are large worn out commercial vehicles that for the most part have had an abusive life. They are at or close to the end of their lifecycle and we are hoping to squeeze a few more miles out of them. You're doing good research and there definitely are some engines to avoid so keep on digging and asking.
And in regards to that specific question both the Cat and the DT466 are in the good motor category. One more thing, if you are close to deciding on a bus pay a couple $$ and have a pro mechanical inspection done on it. Think of it this way, if you spend $300 for an inspection and he finds something serious enough for you to pass on the bus did you really spend $300?
Good luck

Oscar

[Oscar1]

Chesse Wagon types faster then me
What he said.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by SkooliJunki

I think the CAT sounds great but I heard they’re expensive and difficult to repair. What about a DT466e with an Allison 2000?

Originally Posted by Oscar1

Welcome and good luck with your search.
Just out of curiosity where did you hear that? Someone on the internet said so. Here's my opinion, when it breaks, and they all break they are all expensive and hard to repair.

Cats are indeed more expensive. Injectors on a 3126 will cost more just in parts than those for a DT466 or T444. They don't call that yellow paint "Caterpillar gold" for nothing. Caterpillar is doing just fine in the global market since they stopped building highway engines. Care to guess why?

That being said, Oscar is correct in that these being commercial vehicles make them inherently expensive to repair and maintain, BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL TECHNICALLY A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE. Never forget that. Air brake systems do not become hydraulic and commercial diesels do not become gassers just because you converted it to a motorhome. A truck repair shop is still going to charge the same for repair and maintenance.

There is no $30 oil change or $70 trans fluid / coolant exchange with these. Oil changes start at around $300, because they hold gallons of oil, not quarts. Tires start at $200-$250 and up. Brakes can be $2000 per axle, a transmission or engine rebuild/replacement can top $4000, even with you doing the work yourself. OP, I updated my previous post with some data on MPH / RPM and how it affects MPG.