Rear Engines-Are they really that bad?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Tickled Puppy

No pictures. Just common sense based on Fedral law. All school buses over a certain length must have a side emergency exit door. Some rear-engine units MAY have two, one on each side, because they do not have a Rear exit door like front-engine buses. Those are District options. Understand that school buses are the most heavily design-regulated vehicles on the road, and must comply with State, Federal, and Local regulations. There are variations; some states don't have the side-mounted stop signs or front bumper safety stick. But emergency exits must be provided that do not require crawling out windows.

Show me one. Please!?

I haven't ever heard of a modern bus without a stop sign. That's a new one to me too. I've seen WAY more 40' buses with no side doors than with one. Never seen two, maybe in NY where they have weird bus door regs. I've seen the service door on the drivers side on a ny bus.

[WIbluebird]

I've seen a few WA state buses with drivers side EE doors. Seems like a lot of states require side EE doors on pushers since the rear doghouse blocks placement of an EE door back there.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

I've seen a few WA state buses with drivers side EE doors. Seems like a lot of states require side EE doors on pushers since the rear doghouse blocks placement of an EE door back there.

right- thats not whats being debated.

[Tickled Puppy]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Show me one. Please!?

I haven't ever heard of a modern bus without a stop sign. That's a new one to me too. I've seen WAY more 40' buses with no side doors than with one. Never seen two, maybe in NY where they have weird bus door regs. I've seen the service door on the drivers side on a ny bus.

Since you asked, and I'm sorry you've never seen one, but here is a video of a Thomas HDX with TWO emergency exit doors just as I described: [URL="https://youtu.be/HX9WNQBUM4c"[/URL]

As for the stop signs, those are State, not Federally regulated, and have only recently (last 20 years or so) been added to school buses nearly everywhere. In fact, California only started using them recently. I will try to upload an image of a "signless" bus but I'm having trouble with uploads atm.

[Tickled Puppy]

Typical in California until recently, the Crown in the attached picture shows NO extending stop signs.

I have also submitted a video link that shows a Thomas HDX with two EE doors, as I've mentioned. The site says it is being moderated, probably because of the external link, so it may be delayed.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Tickled Puppy

Yes, the lack of a back door precludes the building of a "porch," but I would not recommend adding an additional 5 feet to any bus that already has a significant amount of overhand behind the axle. Three things: It stresses the frame, it requires increased spring rates (if done right) on the back axle, and the increased overhang makes turning difficult. The stress to the frame increases if the porch is used to carry equipment or a motorcycle. All buses also have side emergency doors; the rear-engine ones usually have two, plus the back window hatch. Placing a bed in the back depends on how you want to set it up... I've seen a higher-level bed that adapts to the engine cover and has storage below for bedding or even water tanks. Just look at the bedroom layouts for some high-dollar diesel pusher RV's; they all have to adapt to the engine hump. Usually this area is higher in a school bus because the floor level is lower. Some makes of buses... notably the Thomas HDX I prefer... have a middle "hump" over the engine/transmission area that has to be accommodated. I isn't difficult with a bit of planning.

Originally Posted by Tickled Puppy

Typical in California until recently, the Crown in the attached picture shows NO extending stop signs.

I have also submitted a video link that shows a Thomas HDX with two EE doors, as I've mentioned. The site says it is being moderated, probably because of the external link, so it may be delayed.

Any modern bus is going to have a stop sign.
and there's a big difference between finding some really rare dual EE door bus from an odd district and saying "all buses have side EE doors". I've had several and only one had a side door.

[Tickled Puppy]

If my other link shows up, I'll delete this... but here is the video link. https://youtu.be/HX9WNQBUM4c


BTW if you re-read my post, I NEVER claimed that ALL school buses have TWO emergency exit doors! Some do, some don't. But all school buses DO have at least one! I will say, however, on buses with no easy rear exit, many have passenger-side EE doors. Depends on the district, and it is NOT rare. Some districts, like the one you pictured, have emergency exit windows instead of doors. Like I say, it all depends on State or local requirements.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Tickled Puppy

If my other link shows up, I'll delete this... but here is the video link. https://youtu.be/HX9WNQBUM4c


BTW if you re-read my post, I NEVER claimed that ALL school buses have TWO emergency exit doors! Some do, some don't. But all school buses DO have at least one! I will say, however, on buses with no easy rear exit, many have passenger-side EE doors. Depends on the district, and it is NOT rare.

No they don't all have a side e-door. Maybe they do where you live but its a huge country man. I never side doors are rare. i bought a KY bus with one. you said all buses have them. I'm only trying to dispell internet rumors as they start, not trying to argue. that's a brand newish looking bus in your video. Not something any of us will be 'skoolie-ing' anytime soon.
Other than that video how many examples can you find? what state is that bus from?
I know it sounds silly but imagine some bus noob reading "all buses have side doors" and then bidding on a bus only to find out it didn't?

[Sehnsucht]

Every rear engine I've seen has at least one side emergency exit door usually on the driver side and just forward of the rear axle to compensate for the lack of a rear exit. Most buses I've seen in any engine config also have 2 roof hatches and 2 or 3 emergency popout side windows per side. If you look at a Kentucky spec'd school bus you'll find all of this plus a passenger side emergency exit door because they've had several high-casualty wrecks and want there to be as many possible exit routes as they can fit into the bus. So it really just depends on who spec'd out the original build from the manufacturer.

It's also worth noting that wheelchair lift doors aren't emergency exit doors but for our purposes can be quite beneficial once you remove the lift itself.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

Every rear engine I've seen has at least one side emergency exit door usually on the driver side and just forward of the rear axle to compensate for the lack of a rear exit. Most buses I've seen in any engine config also have 2 roof hatches and 2 or 3 emergency popout side windows per side. If you look at a Kentucky spec'd school bus you'll find all of this plus a passenger side emergency exit door because they've had several high-casualty wrecks and want there to be as many possible exit routes as they can fit into the bus. So it really just depends on who spec'd out the original build from the manufacturer.

It's also worth noting that wheelchair lift doors aren't emergency exit doors but for our purposes can be quite beneficial once you remove the lift itself.

None of the KY buses up the mid-2000's I've looked at had more than the one side exit door. Maybe that's a newer thing.

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

None of the KY buses up the mid-2000's I've looked at had more than the one side exit door. Maybe that's a newer thing.

I can't speak authoritatively but perhaps the one-on-each-side is on REs to compensate for the lack of a rear door but if there's a rear door both sides aren't required.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

I can't speak authoritatively but perhaps the one-on-each-side is on REs to compensate for the lack of a rear door but if there's a rear door both sides aren't required.

Well show me one older than a year or two.

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Never seen an RE with two rear doors and a hatch. Got any pics or links?

These are very common in Loudoun and Fairfax Counties. M&M Salvage has like 30 of them from Loudoun County.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...t0VU16RHlGQXV3

[Native]

That's the first I have seen of emergency doors on both sides. Cool!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449

These are very common in Loudoun and Fairfax Counties. M&M Salvage has like 30 of them from Loudoun County.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...t0VU16RHlGQXV3

Well heck yeah. I guess we don't get many VA buses on here.
First I've ever seen with two e doors.

[cowlitzcoach]

WA state minimum spe'c for rear engine buses requires a side emergency door on both the curb and street side of the bus in addition to the rear emergency exit. The minimum spe'c was changed about 10 years ago.


Previous to the change WA state minimum spe'c was one emergency door on the driver's side of the bus in the rear 2/3's of the bus in addition to the rear emergency exit.

[JChors]

Tickled Puppy schooled the giant!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by JChors

Tickled Puppy schooled the giant!

Giant?
What you smokin? excellent first post lol odd that you dig this up to start a profile and comment. Usually folks introduce themselves then their bus. Just overall a very dubious post.

"tickled puppy" came in saying ALL buses have this and that when in fact that's not true.

[Sehnsucht]

School buses are basically ubiquitous in America but vary widely in specifications from one state to another due to geography, safety requirements, climate, etc. Often times we get wrapped up in what characterizes a typical school bus in our region and forget that across the country they have completely different challenges and therefore very different spec'd buses. Of course that can be a good thing because our goal in this community is typically to convert a vehicle designed for one purpose into something for an entirely different purpose and the innate features from a different region's buses could be a benefit.

For instance, here in the Midwest I can buy $2k conventionals all day long but they'll only do 55mph. School districts in my area are suburban or rural and very localized so don't cover a lot of ground. The main exception is Indianapolis Public Schools which uses mostly flat-nose front engine buses for the tight maneuvering in narrow city streets but IPS also contracts out so most of those buses may not end up in the local secondary market. Either way, they are not desirable for skoolie conversion because they're under-powered (no hills) and prone to rust.

As I travel around the country though, school buses catch my eye and I try to notice the differences from buses at home. If a school bus passes me on the highway (which is rare) it's usually a pusher which tells me that school district has invested in at least one bus for longer trips which has the HP and gearing to maintain highway speeds. Alternatively, I've passed bus caravans before which are usually only doing 55 because they're using the daily route buses and only going a few hours to the big city for some field trip.

I don't think anyone is being 'schooled' here although I appreciate the humorous play on words. We each share our experiences and rely on each other to fill in our gaps in knowledge. ECCB has a lot of experience with bus conversion but that doesn't mean he's seen every configuration of bus there is so a link to resources illustrating various configurations gives us all an appreciation for the variety of buses out there. FWIW I think those Cali buses are art on wheels and if I wanted to restore something to it's original glory that's what I would get. I've got other ideas though and have long known the best platform for my vision is a rear-engine big honking 8.3L or DT530. If I can get two sides doors, even if the curbside one is a wheelchair lift, I can work with that. It might be a bit of a unicorn but I won't end up dumping my time and money into a project I end up regretting. And I learned all of this by reading and asking questions of this forum!

Welcome Jchors!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

School buses are basically ubiquitous in America but vary widely in specifications from one state to another due to geography, safety requirements, climate, etc. Often times we get wrapped up in what characterizes a typical school bus in our region and forget that across the country they have completely different challenges and therefore very different spec'd buses. Of course that can be a good thing because our goal in this community is typically to convert a vehicle designed for one purpose into something for an entirely different purpose and the innate features from a different region's buses could be a benefit.

For instance, here in the Midwest I can buy $2k conventionals all day long but they'll only do 55mph. School districts in my area are suburban or rural and very localized so don't cover a lot of ground. The main exception is Indianapolis Public Schools which uses mostly flat-nose front engine buses for the tight maneuvering in narrow city streets but IPS also contracts out so most of those buses may not end up in the local secondary market. Either way, they are not desirable for skoolie conversion because they're under-powered (no hills) and prone to rust.

As I travel around the country though, school buses catch my eye and I try to notice the differences from buses at home. If a school bus passes me on the highway (which is rare) it's usually a pusher which tells me that school district has invested in at least one bus for longer trips which has the HP and gearing to maintain highway speeds. Alternatively, I've passed bus caravans before which are usually only doing 55 because they're using the daily route buses and only going a few hours to the big city for some field trip.

I don't think anyone is being 'schooled' here although I appreciate the humorous play on words. We each share our experiences and rely on each other to fill in our gaps in knowledge. ECCB has a lot of experience with bus conversion but that doesn't mean he's seen every configuration of bus there is so a link to resources illustrating various configurations gives us all an appreciation for the variety of buses out there. FWIW I think those Cali buses are art on wheels and if I wanted to restore something to it's original glory that's what I would get. I've got other ideas though and have long known the best platform for my vision is a rear-engine big honking 8.3L or DT530. If I can get two sides doors, even if the curbside one is a wheelchair lift, I can work with that. It might be a bit of a unicorn but I won't end up dumping my time and money into a project I end up regretting. And I learned all of this by reading and asking questions of this forum!

Welcome Jchors!

So odd though that late last night they joined just to make that one comment. Seems VERY trollish.