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Old 05-30-2018, 07:01 PM   #1
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Rear gear ratio change?

Hey Everyone,

I am looking at an International 3800 shorty. It currently equipped with 6.13 rear gears.

I can get a used, warrentied "drop in" with 4.88 or 5.38 gears for about $800.

Can anyone tell me what the labor involved in changing this would be and what I should expect to pay a shop to do it?

Thanks.

S.
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:20 PM   #2
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IDK what labor would be.
Does it have OD?
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:45 PM   #3
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It does.

It has a spicer 5 speed OD behind a T444. If it was a DT I would be in hog heaven.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:05 PM   #4
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Why pay a shop to do it? With a ďdrop inĒ all you need to do is change the third member. Jack it up pull driveline, pull axels, pull third member, (with the appropriate jack). Install third member, install axels, install driveline, done

Easy peasy 😁😁 perhaps three hours tops.

You will of course have to replace differential lube.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:18 PM   #5
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actually do not even have to jack it up, the bus that is. I do not jack up to change the third member. It is easyer then one might think other then these are a bit heavy.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:51 PM   #6
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differential gears

That center section lump is going to be pretty heavy. If you do not have experience changing a center section, you can still do this but depending in level of experience it can be daunting. And dangerous. That center section landing on your face could kill you. Landing on your fingers, could amputate fingers.

You will need a torque wrench. you will need gear oil. catch basin for the oil. anti seize compound would be good. And torque specifications. some clean rags, some sort of solvent and a muffin tin to put nuts and washers in.

If this is a two speed rear end -- I dont know how they are put together and all bets are off.

a floor jack is needed, transmission floor jack would be better. with out a jack you will have to make some sort of way to get the old diff out and back to ground level and the replacement diff up to the housing and back in.

A shop with experienced, good mechanics, can do this in less than an hour. If every thing comes apart and goes together well. Assume most times for two hours.
Never done one before and making due with equipment less than perfect for the job, a day.

Air wrenches with an air compressor make the job much faster. transmission jack will speed things up. couple of ratcheting tie down straps. A manual that has torque specifiactions, for the axle shaft flange bolts, drive shaft u joint bolts, differential to housing bolts.

find u tube videos and watch how to do it a couple of times...

william
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
It does.

It has a spicer 5 speed OD behind a T444. If it was a DT I would be in hog heaven.
U sure its got OD?
From what I understand most of the spicer 5 speeds are 1:1.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:44 PM   #8
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two speed rear does not make any differance to changing except would take off the motor for the rear.

Most people would not do this job at home, so not saying jump right in, however it is not as scary as some might think it is. I have done a number of them.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
two speed rear does not make any differance to changing except would take off the motor for the rear.

Most people would not do this job at home, so not saying jump right in, however it is not as scary as some might think it is. I have done a number of them.
Yes perhaps not for everyone.... Iíve done fifty or so.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:06 PM   #10
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Yes perhaps not for everyone.... Iíve done fifty or so.
So what's it worth money wise in labor?
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:10 PM   #11
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So what's it worth money wise in labor?
Most shops will get you for one and a half to two hours shop rate. I donít do it professionally any more so for a friend Iíd probably do it for the heck of it...plus beer!
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:48 PM   #12
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I have a 5.38 gear set in my bus and my trans has a 1:1 final drive ratio. I would like to swap mine for a 4.10 ratio and if there's any interest in my current one, I'll be happy to work a deal on it.


It has an N175 axle.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:00 AM   #13
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I wish I could find a Lower gear for my S110 axle.. I have 3.54's and I want 3.90s


the 3rd member swap is just about weight..



chock a hydraulic brake bus so it cant move (if air brakes it wont move.. )

put a pan under the drain and start draining the oil

drop the rear driveshaft
spin the yoke nut off and pull the yoke.
spin the hub bolts out and pull the axles
break the 3rd member bolts loose but DONT unscrew them

tie the 3rd member down to a platform jack like a trans jack.
pull out the 3rd member bolts, and pry it out of the housing...


lower the jack..


repeat backwards for the new one..



good idea to flush out the housing, clean all gasket services


reprogram your computer for the new gear ratio..
-Christopher
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
U sure its got OD?
From what I understand most of the spicer 5 speeds are 1:1.
I stand corrected.

I went back and looked. I got the Eaton info confused.

The Spicer and 5th is 1:1

I may want to look at 4.11 rear gears. That would give me about 65mph at 2200rpm.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I stand corrected.

I went back and looked. I got the Eaton info confused.

The Spicer and 5th is 1:1

I may want to look at 4.11 rear gears. That would give me about 65mph at 2200rpm.
I had 4.10 rear with a 444E and a 545. It would do 70++. That was with 10R's.
If running 11R's I'd go 4.44 or 4.10.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I had 4.10 rear with a 444E and a 545. It would do 70++. That was with 10R's.
If running 11R's I'd go 4.44 or 4.10.
This bus has 10R22.5's. I wonder if I could easily swap for low profile 22.5's?

As best I understand it, I want to shoot for around 2200rpm at highway cruise. Any thoughts on that?

Using one of the online calculators gave me about 65mph @ 2200 RPM with a 4.10 rear end.

This may all be academic. I have not bought the bus yet. I have two in my driveway right now. I think I need to find a new parking space for one of them. I suspect that my wife may run out of patience with me if she came home to 3 buses in the driveway......

The bus is a 6 window that I would cut the body off behind the second window and build a flatbed with a 5th wheel hitch.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:19 PM   #17
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with no OD, 2200 isnt a bad highway cruise.. if you have OD Then shoot for that 1700-1900 range knowing you can drop down to spool the turbo on a hill.. or if your 5 to 4 is a close ratio you can run a little lower RPM knowing your downshift from 5 to 4 wont run you over RPM at speed..
I dont know your gears
-Christopher
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:01 PM   #18
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If you go with low profile tires you'll kill your highway mpg. And some ground clearance.
I've got low pros on my shorty and HATE them. 10R's will be going on. MAYBE even 11R's.

4.10 with no OD is a pretty good choice.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
If you go with low profile tires you'll kill your highway mpg. And some ground clearance.
I've got low pros on my shorty and HATE them. 10R's will be going on. MAYBE even 11R's.

4.10 with no OD is a pretty good choice.
My thought was low pro in combination with rear gear change to get the speed/rpm that I want.

I have low profile 22.5s on my truck and have no issue. What is it that you don't like?
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
That center section lump is going to be pretty heavy. If you do not have experience changing a center section, you can still do this but depending in level of experience it can be daunting. And dangerous. That center section landing on your face could kill you. Landing on your fingers, could amputate fingers.

You will need a torque wrench. you will need gear oil. catch basin for the oil. anti seize compound would be good. And torque specifications. some clean rags, some sort of solvent and a muffin tin to put nuts and washers in.

If this is a two speed rear end -- I dont know how they are put together and all bets are off.

a floor jack is needed, transmission floor jack would be better. with out a jack you will have to make some sort of way to get the old diff out and back to ground level and the replacement diff up to the housing and back in.

A shop with experienced, good mechanics, can do this in less than an hour. If every thing comes apart and goes together well. Assume most times for two hours.
Never done one before and making due with equipment less than perfect for the job, a day.

Air wrenches with an air compressor make the job much faster. transmission jack will speed things up. couple of ratcheting tie down straps. A manual that has torque specifiactions, for the axle shaft flange bolts, drive shaft u joint bolts, differential to housing bolts.

find u tube videos and watch how to do it a couple of times...

william
Very good description of the hassles and dangers. Have done a few 4wd but never the giant one in the bus. Have all the tools plus but if and when this needs to be done sub it out and live. Not the one to learn on IMHO.
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