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Old 12-28-2021, 05:40 PM   #1
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Year: 1992
Coachwork: Carpenter Counselor FE 39’
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Engine: DT466 (not E)
Reputable shops to buy ring and pinion

1992 International 3900FC Carpenter Counselor FE DT466-C Allison MT643

Just pulled pinion from chunk/pumpkin/etc b/c I found a tooth at bottom of housing when draining differential oil. Pinion is missing 2 teeth (with good tooth b/w). Im being told that I cannot replace just a ring or a pinion, and that I need to replace as a completed pair. If true, does anyone recommend reputable shops to order these parts from?
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Old 12-28-2021, 06:02 PM   #2
Skoolie
 
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I think some of that super glue will fix that!
The simple way to fix this -- Just buy a complete used "pumpkin" from a recycler and install it. You will never wear out a good one.
Just the labor to replace and set up a new R&P is more than the cost of a complete used unit. Make sure you get the gear ratio you want.
The wear on the old pinion suggests that there is a large amount of foreign material in the oil. Possible bearing failure sending parts thru the pinion. You will need to completely clean the axle housing. Good Luck!
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Old 12-28-2021, 11:30 PM   #3
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I bought mine from van der haags

seems fine.. paid $800 that included shipping out of florida to kansas

two years ago. needed to have a business with fork lift for delivery address.

william
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Old 01-01-2022, 05:10 PM   #4
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Bus currently geared 4.78. Both 4.44 and 4.10 R&P ratios were recommended, but advisor is having second thoughts about 4.10. Personally, I prefer the additional speed with 4.10 and plan maintain =<60mp or <2000 rpm. Are there other factors that I should consider the 4.44 over 4.10?
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Old 01-01-2022, 06:49 PM   #5
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Whats your weight? And do you do mountain driving often? Honestly, they are so close and your engine has plenty of torque doesn't matter. If you travel around Colorado often, do the 4.44 if you run into the occasional mountain pass, the 4.10 should be alright. I have an MD3060 so with the .65, I want something around a 4.78 to keep me around my most efficient cruising rpm on the interstate.
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Old 01-01-2022, 07:52 PM   #6
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im surprised that thing wasnt making a TON of noise.. I had a very similar situation in my Superior Bus and it sounded TERRIBLE! .I ended up getting a complete reman chunk from weller truck parts.. I had a 6.xx rear and went to a 4.78 so I crossed a carrier break which meant I needed a new carrier.. and of course bearings, cups, etc.. you will want to replace more than just the gears.. its for sure eaten metal so you'll need bearings and seals all the way around...

in my case I chose NOT to replace my wheel bearings on the ends of the tubes.. and havent had any issues..
I didnt drive very far when mine got noisy
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Old 01-08-2022, 02:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
im surprised that thing wasnt making a TON of noise.. I had a very similar situation in my Superior Bus and it sounded TERRIBLE! .I ended up getting a complete reman chunk from weller truck parts.. I had a 6.xx rear and went to a 4.78 so I crossed a carrier break which meant I needed a new carrier.. and of course bearings, cups, etc.. you will want to replace more than just the gears.. its for sure eaten metal so you'll need bearings and seals all the way around...

in my case I chose NOT to replace my wheel bearings on the ends of the tubes.. and havent had any issues..
I didnt drive very far when mine got noisy

I too have a 6.?? rear end and want to make change. What is a carrier break?
Im assuming that if you make a large change that there are other considerations?

Im looking at a 5.27 at Vanderhaags
I hear that there is a 10mph difference between 5.27 and 6.27. True?

Thanks!
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Old 01-08-2022, 02:43 PM   #8
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The carrier is the center rotating assembly within the “chunk”. It holds the ring gear and spider gears. Because of different diameter pinion gears the carrier has a different offset as to right / left where the ring gear needs to be. They have “breaks” meaning say all ratios up to 4.10 use part number X for the carrier and ratios say 4.11 up to maybe 5.39 might use carrier part Y, these are called breaks. Making a huge change often requires a different carrier. The breaks are often published for whichever axle / diff you have . If you say within the range then the same carrier works. Going from 6.xx to 4.78 required a different carrier on my RA39 diff. I think I could go down to a 4.30 if I wanted on the current carrier.. if I say wanted to regear my dev bus from 4.78 down to 4.44, the carrier is the same. But a 4.10 requires a different one.
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Old 01-08-2022, 02:58 PM   #9
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van der haags

If you are looking at van der haags, you are looking at an entire differential assembly.... I would think.

if that is the case, you need not worry about a "break" in carrier size/offset.

For my S110 axle, I think the ring gear carrier is the same up to 4.10 and over 4.10 is a different carrier.

I switched from 4.88 to 3.73 and just bought the entire differential assembly..

There are two things to pay attention to.

1) axle spline size/count - I had to make sure the one I bought used the same axle shafts.

2) uses the same Ujoint - but usually you can buy "hybrid" ujoints in case there is a mis match.

3) My situation - I also need to make sure there was a vehicle speed sensor VSS on the replacement differential. My system uses the VSS for antilock brakes and speedometer some differentials did not have the VSS



william
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Old 01-09-2022, 07:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
If you are looking at van der haags, you are looking at an entire differential assembly.... I would think.

if that is the case, you need not worry about a "break" in carrier size/offset.

For my S110 axle, I think the ring gear carrier is the same up to 4.10 and over 4.10 is a different carrier.

I switched from 4.88 to 3.73 and just bought the entire differential assembly..

There are two things to pay attention to.

1) axle spline size/count - I had to make sure the one I bought used the same axle shafts.

2) uses the same Ujoint - but usually you can buy "hybrid" ujoints in case there is a mis match.

3) My situation - I also need to make sure there was a vehicle speed sensor VSS on the replacement differential. My system uses the VSS for antilock brakes and speedometer some differentials did not have the VSS



william

I need something Lower for my S110!! i have a 3.54 and need to be at like a 4.10 or something, I dont find much out there for S110 .. you got lucky!
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:12 PM   #11
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hey cadillac

The spicer - s110 was in the f450 2005 that I used the for the 1954 wayne... the same rear was used in international terrastars... I found 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4,30, 4.88, and 5.30 rear diff in the truck salvage places..... the f450 and f550 used 4.30 and 4.88 most

lkq toledo ohio has a 3.91 4.10 4.30

my tough part was finding a 3.73 with a vss tone ring. The Ford truck enthusiast forum was pretty adamant that the any thing lower than the 4.10 did not have a tone ring available.

there were also two or three axle spline counts available too.

mine ended up out of a truck salvage in florida.

If my information is correct a s110 in the f450 is good to 14,000 lbs but was derated by ford to put it in the f450. So is it really a s140 ?

william
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Old 01-09-2022, 02:17 PM   #12
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mine confuses me as the tag in it says Spicer 110 and then there is also 'S135' on it.. luckily I dont need a tone ring, my ABS is handled by wheel speed sensors... a 4.30 could work for me too.. I havent seen those really..
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Old 01-09-2022, 02:24 PM   #13
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Cadillac

I think you actually have an s135 Single gear reduction “S”. Rated at 13,500 lbs. “135”

That is what Ford is putting in the trucks, but derates, on paper, to 11,000lbs.

The 3.91. I only found in non ford trucks, 4.10 I found in special order fords and non ford trucks. The 4.30 4.88. Are really common in the f450 and f550

Ford seems to use single channel abs for the rear axle, Wonder if you can make use of the tone ring for some sort of traction control electronic wizardry you are capable of…… or some thing else non of us mortals have thought of.

Cheers!

One of these days I would like to meet up and cruise junkyards. Do you ever do that?
William
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:08 PM   #14
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cadillac - update

4.10 limited slip 2012 s110 stock #73690 Truckpartsinventory.com

westland michigan

4.10 limited slip S/N E33932J11 OEM# 0969103 UPC PO 53160 RATIO 4.10 locker S/N D988AHN03867191

866-948-9058

william
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Old 01-09-2022, 07:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
I think you actually have an s135 Single gear reduction S. Rated at 13,500 lbs. 135

That is what Ford is putting in the trucks, but derates, on paper, to 11,000lbs.

The 3.91. I only found in non ford trucks, 4.10 I found in special order fords and non ford trucks. The 4.30 4.88. Are really common in the f450 and f550

Ford seems to use single channel abs for the rear axle, Wonder if you can make use of the tone ring for some sort of traction control electronic wizardry you are capable of or some thing else non of us mortals have thought of.

Cheers!

One of these days I would like to meet up and cruise junkyards. Do you ever do that?
William

for sure!! we have a couple nice bus yards in ohio.. one of them has their yard outlined with 1970s and early 80s Superiors / waynes / carpenters.. so you can imagine I spent lots of time there for parts to restore my Superior..



Mike and B sales in eastern ohio is a great place to peruse for bus parts!!

Pauls in east ohio sometimes has some good stuff.
Starks down near middletown..

junklyarding is FUN!


I need to look my Chunk up again.. i did it once then got busy.. i had thought there was a change somewhere around 2006 timeframe in the number of axle splines.. fomr some reason i remember something about mine being 32 and the more moderns being 34.. but i need to get back into that project and look it all up from my notes again.



a Locker would be kinda cool!! wonder if i can build a motor strong enough to lay down 4 strips of rubber
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Old 01-10-2022, 11:23 AM   #16
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Just to be clear, the Dana S135/S150 are quite a bit different than the S110/S130. Best to know exactly what you have.

(Ford F53 motorhomes chassis have used these axles since '99 (and others). I have a 5.38 S135 in my '04. Have some spare parts too, including a Truetrac gear type diff.)
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