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Old 04-27-2015, 02:11 AM   #1
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seeking someone with knowledge of older buses mine is a 64 bluebird

I went to pick my bus up and drive her home, I am on my own and none of those close to me could get time off, I paid for her in advance and when I got there I just got bad feelings about the seller not the bus itself.

One thing he said was that most clutches take brake fluid but the one for this bus did not it took power steering fluid, which did not make sense to me and worried me but I figured I could ask around before it became an issue

Sadly that was not the case my bus is now stuck at a shop in new mexico, that wont even look at her due to her age, I want to be able to do the work on her but need help in learning what to do, but I had to come home and leave her 562 miles away.

Does anyone know of a clutch system that does take power steering fluid? I am trying to weigh my options

64 bluebird
manual
ford 330 motor
has a red button on shifter that I was told takes it from a 5 speed to a 11 speed granny ?

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Old 04-27-2015, 06:53 AM   #2
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wish i could help in person, you need someone to go back with you to diagnose the problem. is the clutch moving, is the drive shaft moving? the red button is a 2 speed rear end, hi lo so every gear has 2 speeds . could be clutch, transmition, drive shaft or rear end. if he told you about adding fluid for the clutch it could be your problem. did it go dry? you have air in the system witch is compressing not allowing the clutch to disengage. if you crank in gear does it want to roll?
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:51 AM   #3
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Did you go to the other website I recommended?

It should be easy to diagnose in person, that shop must be a bunch of monkeys
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:55 AM   #4
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All of the hydraulic clutch systems I have seen take brake fluid, if you add power steering fluid it will swell the cups on the pistons in both the master and slave cylinder which can cause them to stick or leak badly. Did the failure happen when you had the clutch pedal pushed down, as in shifting and as you let out the clutch it wouldn't engage again or were you using the two speed rear axle in conjunction with
the clutch at the time. We need to narrow down what happened first before we can
remotely diagnose the problem.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:14 AM   #5
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All wet clutch linkages I have ever seen used brake fluid.

I would agree that if someone has used ATF you are going to have problems. Even if it didn't cause problems like Dragonpop described I would be concerned that the ATF can't handle the heat that brake fluid can handle.

Diagnosing the problem is pretty simple but you need to be a little more clear as to what the problem is.

If the clutch face is rusted onto the flywheel it will present itself as if the clutch is never releasing. This could be misdiagnosed as a linkage problem.

So the first thing you have to determine is if the clutch is releasing or not. If not, why.

If the linkage is moving but the clutch is not releasing then it is most likely either not moving enough or the clutch has rusted itself to the flywheel.

If the linkage is not moving then the problem is in the linkage. This could be either air in the system, rusted pistons in the slave or master cylinder that are not moving, or seals in the pistons have failed allowing the pressure to go past the cylinder instead of moving the cylinder.

So again, you need to determine why the clutch is not releasing before you start throwing parts at the bus.

If the bus will start and move under its own power there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to move the bus home or at least closer to home.

Shifting without the clutch releasing can be a real challenge but it can be done. The hardest part is needing to kill the engine at every stop to keep from moving forward.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:19 PM   #6
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I wish you could go back with me too superdave trust me I do, if she is in gear and you crank she pulls forward, the clutch pedal never got soft or hard to push, when you let off the clutch the gears wont engage, first gear would work till the tow truck driver took off the drive shaft.

bansil I did register with them as soon as I got home to Texas, waiting for approval, but had to do so something, I think to many mechanics rely on their computers to fix the issues with vehicles these days, and the older vehicles that need to be diagnosed in person scare them.

Dragonpop I was using the basic 5 speed shifting pattern, it felt fine shifted to 1st then to 2nd on a ramp and when released the clutch pedal it did not engage so down shifted to first and tried a couple more times till I could got off the middle of the highway to not block the traffic, I could not find any leaks from the slave or clutch system nor did it seem dry to me, even if had would have hesitated about adding power steering to it, because like you I have never seen anything but brake fluid being used for a clutch system, and had been warned along time ago about what power steering would do if you used it and not brake fluid, but I don't know alot of things mechanically so wanted to verify before I did anything. going to try and get her home via uship if I can't going to have to let her go via ebay.

cowlitzcoach the clutch was working fine and stopped engaging only gear that seemed to work was 1st at that point not knowing why and not being able to get anyone to look at her I hitched a ride to greyhound and came home to try and get her home another way, I did not want to risk causing more damage to her or another vehicle along the way while I drove. I am also getting the info on here to help me with determining what I need to do to get her fixed once she gets home. I am living in a tent on my son`s land right now without any form of transportation, she was (is I hope) my home and freedom back.
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:39 PM   #7
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those guys are a lot of OTR drivers and friends, so they may be able to recommend someone, and at 1964, she ain't old ;)
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:45 PM   #8
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That's cool looking forward to talking to them, yep I agree she is only a year older then I am after all! But with everyone's reaction to her in Santa Rosa would have thought she was far older, I think they are use to doing rush job get a rig in and out asap, so they can get back to work, and they felt like my bus would be a long term project that would hold up one of their bays.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyndrgn View Post
If she is in gear and you crank she pulls forward, the clutch pedal never got soft or hard to push, when you let off the clutch the gears wont engage, first gear would work till the tow truck driver took off the drive shaft.
The clutch is stuck engaged.

This is great news.

This is the info we were trying to get.

Now get back to that bus, fire her up, and power shift her home.

Don't let this old girl go.

Nat
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:08 PM   #10
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Hey nat;

I had to rush home because one of my pups got stressed out about me being gone and bit my granddaughter the only thing that saved her from my son's wraith was his daughter's plea to not hurt Poppet, right now I don't have the ability to go back and get her but I am not planning on letting her go, and in truth not sure how I would do with power shifting her home, I had just gotten comfortable driving her the normal way. Plus when I was putting her in any gear besides 1st she would not move at all
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:11 AM   #11
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These will teach you what you need to know about the 2 speed axle.







That bus has a hydraulic clutch? I would have bet on linkage.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:40 AM   #12
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Motobus I was told by the man that sold it to me it had a slave cylinder that took power steering fluid, and thats what i have been going by.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:20 AM   #13
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Hey nat;

Plus when I was putting her in any gear besides 1st she would not move at all
so the clutch worked in first? the tranny felt like it was shifting but nothing? did you try the rest of the gears 3 4? when you took off in first any slipage or did it pull strong?
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:14 AM   #14
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Weird almost sounds like 2 issues at once?

clutch engaged (while cranking, pedal out) and moves in first (but the hydraulic part of clutch pedal, pressure plate release doesn't work so can't shift into out of gear while running)

And only 1st gear applies to the above statement

Maybe bushing is broken in the shift tower and only allows engagement of 1st gear, broken because off hard shifting (lots of pressure) due to loss of fluid for slave?

just adding questions
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:15 PM   #15
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superdave it felt strong in first but would not engage in any other gear I tried, yes tried 2nd-5th and reverse..... in reverse I could not even get it in to gear at all would start grinding as soon as tried.

bansil or due to being worked hard after so long with power steering fluid in slave? I am sure that is part of my issue damage from him using power steering....I figure after 200 miles the fluid had gotten to thin and we have failure.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:53 PM   #16
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I think everyone is jumping in with a lot of ideas without having the whole picture and just throwing out ideas. My understanding of what you have said so far is.

With bus in first gear, clutch pedal not pushed engage starter and bus tries to move. This tells us that clutch does engage and driveshaft, u-joints and axles are at least not broken.
With out changing anything else and you push the clutch pedal does it still try to move when you try the starter? If it does not try to move this tells us that the clutch does release.

You also said that in any other gear the bus does not try to move with the clutch pedal not pushed. If this is the case there is something internal wrong with the transmission.

In any of the above scenarios it really doesn't matter if you have the wrong hydraulic fluid in the reservoir, at least to find out why it doesn't move.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:12 PM   #17
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somewhereinusa, no it does not try to move when the clutch pedal is pushed, and you can feel it slip into the other gears but it will not move, I was unable to check if the bus would lurch forward in any other gear but first in such a way, because of where I was broke down then the tow truck guy left before putting the drive shaft back in.

I am just trying to get an ideal of what could be wrong and how much it will end up costing to fix once I find someone who will work on her
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:01 PM   #18
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Sounds like a worn-out clutch or in need of a clutch adjust, depends on whether
the clutch has room to be adjusted. Did the clutch pedal feel tight all the way to
the top of it's stroke or did it have some free-play at the top? If it's needing adjusted
it will have no free-play on the pedal (not feeling pressure for the first inch or so
on the pedal).
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:31 AM   #19
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I don't think there is a mechanical adjustment for free play on a hydraulic clutch. Free play in them is usually adjusted and maintained automatically through use.

I've never seen a clutch system use transmission fluid to work. I've seen techs put a squirt of transmission fluid into the system to seal up some weeping seals(causes the seals to swell). If I had to guess, someone along the line of ownership got confused about that and they started using just tranny fluid.
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Old 04-29-2015, 02:19 PM   #20
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Dragonpop there was no free play on the pedal as far as I could tell the pressure was even and normal from top to bottom with my height it was hard to get use to it but I had done.

Booyah that is my thought as well on the power steering fluid.

I am hoping to get her back home but may end up having to put her up on ebay
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