Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-12-2023, 07:45 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
"Service engine soon"light and stop engine lighta, 2002 bluebird, Cummins 24v.

Does anyone know what these two lights mean when they come on together?

I have recently had the bus sitting for about 6 months. It's sat with a full tank of fuel with one bottle of power service diesel fuel stabilizer mixed in. This weekend I head out from the property where the bus was parked on a 700 mi trip down to Florida. About halfway through I stopped for fuel and topped off the tank with diesel. Almost immediately after this fill up I had the service engine soon light come on and the bus lost power. Typically I see 20 lb of boost and 1100 degrees Fahrenheit EGT if I hold the pedal all the way down. With the service engine soon light on I would only get 8 to 10 lb of boost, EGT of 900° Max and the bus would struggle to go over 55 mph.

I pulled over shut off the bus waited about 5 minutes and started it back up. The light was off but came back on as soon as I accelerated. Within about 15 miles of driving with the service engine soon light and reduced power the red stop engine warning light came on. I was on the interstate and could not pull over for about 2 mi. When I did I checked both of my fuel filters and though not perfectly clean they didn't appear clogged. I drained off the water separator on the engine and the water separator on the filter underneath the body. This made no change and both the service engine soon light and stop engine light we're coming on intermittently. It appeared that the "stop engine light" would come on if I held the throttle all the way down though at this point the bus was struggling to go even 40 mph.

I pulled into a O'Riley's service shop and purchased a brand new filter WIX 33411 and water separator type Wix WIX 33585XE.

It seemed to help, though when I got back on the interstate and accelerated to 60 mph the service engine light came back on, the bus slowly lost power, and at this point the stop engine red light comes back on intermittently. The replacement of both filters appears to have made only a short term difference.

Any ideas what is going on here? It really feels like this issue is related to fuel and throttle application.

If I reduce my speed to 25 mph all the lights go off. When the bus is idling all the lights go off. Here is a video link showing the behavior of the bus.

https://youtu.be/7w8g-QaPqog

I have a manual oil pressure gauge that shows that I have proper oil pressure 40 to 80 psi. I checked my coolant level before departing for the trip but I'm unable to check it now because I have a bike on a rack in front of the grill.

All help is appreciated, I am currently stranded at a cracker barrel parking lot near Savannah Georgia until I can figure out what's going on with my bus. I do not feel comfortable on the interstate because I cannot maintain interstate speed, and I fear that I may damage my vp44 if there is a genuine fuel delivery issue that I need to address asap.

Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 08:13 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
fo4imtippin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 783
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000 28ft
Engine: Cummins ISB 5.9 24v, MD3060
Rated Cap: 14
I had same symptoms of this. My bus was sitting for a long time when I picked it up. When I finally got the tank down to an 1/8th. I must have sucked some gunk into my filters. New ones cleared it up. No codes were pulling with the lights.


If you replaced them already and it still does it, probably a failed lift pump. Really need a fuel pressure gauge to know for sure. Good job stopping or you will fry your VP44. I would replace the lift pump above the starter.


Below your engine mounted fuel filter, there should be a green sensor. Cummins added these as part of a recall to light those dash lights up on low pressure.
fo4imtippin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 05:17 AM   #3
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Thank you, is there a recommended replacement/ upgrade for the lift pump that has better fuel delivery performance. I've read that the stock pump seems to be a common failure point and even when it's new, delivers low fuel pressure.

For some reason I thought my bus was equiped with a fuel pump in the back of the tank... I'll need to investigate. Is it possible I what two pumps?
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 05:18 AM   #4
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Also some new information. This morning, after the bus sat for 6 hours shut down. I started it up to try and short stint in the interstate. I was able to go normal / full speed with no lights for about 25 miles. Engine temp 190 the whole time. It's a cold morning, about 40 degrees.


If there is no SES light and performance is fine, would I have any concern to keep driving it? I have another 5 hours down to Florida and then it would be much less stressful to diagnose or replace the lift pump there rather than in transit.
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 08:12 AM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
ewo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Tx.
Posts: 2,077
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsneeb View Post
Also some new information. This morning, after the bus sat for 6 hours shut down. I started it up to try and short stint in the interstate. I was able to go normal / full speed with no lights for about 25 miles. Engine temp 190 the whole time. It's a cold morning, about 40 degrees.


If there is no SES light and performance is fine, would I have any concern to keep driving it? I have another 5 hours down to Florida and then it would be much less stressful to diagnose or replace the lift pump there rather than in transit.
I recently worked on a bus with a 24 v Cummins, it had a dead pedal symptom.
What I learned from that experience is that the lift pump actually helps keep the computer of vp44 injection pump cool. That is, the flow of fuel to the vp44 , from the lift pump.

Basically, good fuel flow, good cooling.
Poor fuel flow, poor cooling.
The lift pump can cause the vp44 to overheat and eventually kill/ overheat the vp44.

Not to say this is your issue but definitely info you should be aware of.
ewo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 09:01 AM   #6
Bus Nut
 
fo4imtippin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 783
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000 28ft
Engine: Cummins ISB 5.9 24v, MD3060
Rated Cap: 14
Dodge put in tank pumps as remediation, but i haven't seen Bluebird having done that. It is better to have your pump by the tank as they are more efficient pushing than pulling.


As for upgrades, most of the dodge guys go Airdog or FASS and that was my plan. Thats pretty pricey and we already have some good filters going. A cheaper upgrade that is recommended is to change from the carter style pump to airtex or delphi. I believe its shaped a bit different, so it doesn't mount in exactly the same bolts.


Personally, i was going to attack mine early, but have since decided to work on conversion stuff. I'm going to install a fuel pressure gauge because those are cheap. Then i will relocate the pump to not be behind the starter area and move it to the frame rails with a low micron filter in line there. This will make future maintenance easy. Once you get in there, you will probably just want to replace the carter pump. Its not bad, but just add a gauge.
fo4imtippin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 10:22 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Northern California (Sacramento)
Posts: 1,453
Year: 1999
Coachwork: El Dorado Fiberglass
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: V10 Gas
Do you have an OBD Code Reader?

If you haven't already purchased an OBD Code reader I recommend the Innova OBD Code Reader 5210. Cheapest of the kind that read out the name of the codes as well. That way you aren't just looking at the 'Service Engine Soon' light. A little over a hundred buck and worth every nickel.
Rucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 10:35 AM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
https://youtu.be/pUz0nrbzTUw

New video of the current symptoms today.

I was able to borrow a fuel pressure tester from AutoZone and have hooked it up to the banjo bolt exiting the fuel filter assembly leading to the vp44. What I have observed is 10 to 12 PSI at idle and no less than eight or 9 PSI at wide open throttle. The service engine soon light is still coming on seemingly randomly sometimes it causes the engine to derate sometimes it does not. I think this engine light may be on for something other than fuel pressure or perhaps it is not getting an accurate reading because my gauge is showing 8 to 10 psi constantly even when the service engine light and stop engine light is on.

Is there some other condition that will illuminate both of these lights and cause the engine to derate?

I do have an OBD2 reader but it is not something I can use on the bus I need the j type reader which I do not have when I use the diagnostic switch under the dash it doesn't report any codes or at least it doesn't flash the service engine light and stop engine light are on when the diagnostic switch is on but there is no flashing. at this point I'm going to continue my trip and keep an eye on the fuel pressure with the manual gauge I have a spare lift pump with me that I also purchased at AutoZone.

Appreciate all the advice guys thank you!
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 11:24 AM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 552
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
I would probably unplug the connector you put in the diagnostic port. I believe you have a Zone alarm system which may be interfering with the ecm. Just an initial observation, not really a final resolution.
BamaBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 12:10 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Ok, turns out I have fault code 0143 and 0415, and 0434.

All oil pressure related so I'm going to order another sending unit.
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 07:14 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 552
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
The 0434 could be for the un-switched battery supply running to the ecm. It would cause the derating issue. Could be a bad connection anywhere between the battery terminal and ecm.
BamaBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 09:03 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,007
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
are you sure you dont have an actual oil pressure issue when the engine gets hot?


clogged oil cooler / excessive blowby that heats the oil up? fuel thinning out the oil...
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 09:27 PM   #13
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
are you sure you dont have an actual oil pressure issue when the engine gets hot?


clogged oil cooler / excessive blowby that heats the oil up? fuel thinning out the oil...
I do not believe I have a low oil pressure issue, for one I have a mechanical gauge directly off of the top of the oil filter which reads consistent 40 to 60 PSI while in the same rpm range (2000r cruise) as the ECM was seeing only 10 to 12 PSI. At idle hot the manual gauge read 20-25. The engine has no symptoms at all of low oil pressure no rod knock no excessive noise no oil consumption and regularly passes a oil inspection.

I do think that the oil thinning out as it warmed up is what contributed to being able to drive the engine early in the morning both days without seeing any issues for the first 100 miles.
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 09:33 PM   #14
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
The Cummins dealer had this part in stock which I thought would work for my engine, but then I was told it would not. P#, 4921517.

They ordered a different part after looking at a service bulletin for my engine. I'm not sure which part number it was but they will have it tomorrow.

I was confused the whole time because I thought the oil pressure sending unit was a separate unit attached by to the oil filter by a flexible stainless steel hose on the side of the frame.
T
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_20230213_133731025_HDR.jpg  
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2023, 09:36 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
The 0434 could be for the un-switched battery supply running to the ecm. It would cause the derating issue. Could be a bad connection anywhere between the battery terminal and ecm.
Good observation. I had just recently disconnected and replaced my battery. I also use a manual battery disconnect whenever I am away from the bus, because I have a lithium 12 volt battery that I do not want to accidentally discharge in my absence
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2023, 07:05 AM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,007
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
super on the mechanical gauge.. I would def trust that over the sensor!
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2023, 04:24 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,775
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Oil pressure sensor is located below the ecm on the driver's side of the engine. IIRC the original sensor might be NLA, has been superseded to a different style, and that's what the bulletin is for, as you might have to retrofit the connector too.

Thats what the 1st two codes correspond too. The 3rd one is for abrupt loss of voltage to the ecm. So check and test your batteries, and then check the harness for any blown fuses.
__________________
My build: The Silver Bullet https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/p...llet-9266.html
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2023, 10:28 AM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
I'm having a real difficult time locating this part.
3408484.

Bus is still down with the same low pressure limp mode.

I'm figuring any other 24v Cummins of similar age should have it.
I would love to go to bus junkyard but can't seem to find any near me in Florida.
I'm in Lake Wales.

Anyone have any leads on where I can find something? Or anyone doing an engine part out for any reason
Jsneeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2023, 12:11 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,775
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
3408484 is NLA, only option is used or aftermarket $$$.
This one has an oval plug.

Since it's NLA, they've superceded to 4921517 which has a square plug and you need to adapt your harness to a square connector.

I searched through our invoices and found I once used 4326849, which has the same oval connector as 3408484. This was on a dodge pickup, not a bus, but it will likely work just fine on a bus, you might try and find one of those to use.
__________________
My build: The Silver Bullet https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/p...llet-9266.html
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.