Short bus engine/tranny specs??

[Bon Voyage]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

CAT, Cummins, International, Detroit, GMC, they are *ALL* going to give sticker shock to anyone who cant turn their own wrenches.... they are *ALL* going to be less of an isssue for those who can turn their own wrenches or have people on speed dial who can...



Geberally speakingthe more complex the engine, the nore there is to break, and the more sophisticated tools it takes to fix them.. whether you make your own tool, rent it, or buy it.. Ive got a whole Damn garage full of tools and a whole Closet full of Scan tools just to p;ay with my supposed "toy" cars and busses.. LOL
-Christopher

I second that!

[PatrickBaptist]

Originally Posted by o1marc

I finally read a post that gave me an indication of where the OP is (Ca.) It would help to know that because the difference between $4k-$7K in Ca. as opposed to NJ is huge.

I just put 2800 miles on an 05 Cat C7 with 171K miles on it, ran flawlessly. If I listen to everyone here I will expect it to be in the shop next week for $40k worth of work, Of course that rep comes from people who have never owned one., not so much if abused. So don't abuse. it. The mechanics that work on them say they are a fine if maintained When searching school auctions ask the maintenance department how many actual issues they've had over how many million miles and I think many would quite surprised.
As mentioned the Skoolie thing is growing and pre 04 buses are getting harder to find as a second owner. The schools will be out of them shortly as some are already liquidating 05-06 models.

" C7 with 171K miles on it, ran flawlessly. If I listen to everyone" I didn't say nor have said they will fail that early nor cost anywhere near 40k to rebuild/work on.

" searching school auctions ask the maintenance department how many actual issues they've had over how many million miles" I've not seen any buses listed with a million miles on them from schools.... Most I've ever seen were 300k and under as they get rid of them around the 15 year or less of age depending on the laws in whichever state they just don't keep a bus long enough for it to rack up a million miles.
Def call up some shops and find out what real life mechanics have to say about em, not just the districts getting rid of them.
Just saying, don't group me in with "everyone" with that statement because that wouldn't be the truth concerning me.
Def like to hear what you would have to say after a few hundred thousand miles and more with the same engine, 2800 isn't even through one oil change.
"The mechanics that work on them say they are a fine if maintained" All of them or just the ones you read from? Regardless of the brand we can find mechanics on all sides that say things like they love how "x" brand makes junk to keep them in business. I can find both good and bad statements against every brand/model engine when looking up any engine with shops, I've never seen a single brand that made anything that every shop that worked on them would agree with each other either way.
No engine is perfect, but some were just built with the intent to be a money pit that should be avoided at all costs even if it meant getting a gasser, and I'm not even talking about CAT at all but I won't get into that because I don't want to insult someone that prob has one on here.

With all that said I wouldn't completely avoid a CAT like say how I def would the AT545 trans or a GM 6.2/6.5 diesel unless it was for scrap price.
There have just always been options out there that I have found to be more suited to what I needed for a fair enough price that I don't ever wind up with CAT powered trucks, though I must admit, the fuel injection on the IH engines I so like (HEUI) is a CAT product and def a good innovation, they work better for the waste fuel I brew up and harder to damage with dirty fuel.

I can rebuild a 7.3 for around $2500 in parts provided heads, injectors, crank, cam are reusable and get half a million miles and maybe more before the next go around, how much would it cost you to rebuild a CAT 7.2 yourself (parts without shop labor other than sending the heads to a machine shop). Prob could do it for less depending but generally that's what I wind up charging a person in parts with a little mark for parts to rebuild 7.3 powerstrokes including turbo rebuild (before the labor).

You would be surprised at how many people said 1 day it ran great after tens of thousands of miles and turn around the next day and it take a dump or an internal break. I bought a RV that way where it dropped a valve while in route from NY to TN just after the man bought it for 13k and then tires and other work for me to turn around and take it away for $1500 because noone else would touch it. When a internal part breaks alot of times it was without warning and running flawless before it happened....... I'll stop there. Have a good evening.

[o1marc]

Patrick, not talking million mile buses, but million mile fleets.
I asked Beaverton about the issues and how many they have dealt with. On a fleet of over 50 buses like mine, he said they had injecter cup issues with 3 or 4. If they all saw the 170k miles mine did, that's 8.5 million miles with 3 faults. Just sayin, when you look at real numbers, it's not as bad as it seems.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by M.ruel55@gmail.com

No one mentioned caterpillar engines. Million mile engines

NO school buses come with million mile engines outside of crowns and some gilligs. And those take an inframe or two to make a million.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist

There is a reason they no longer make engines for on road trucks.........
If I say much about it I'll make another feller get upset about it on here and that's not my aim.
He will prob show up and mention em all the same.
Cost to work on one though always causes me to shy away from em personally as I'm the kinda person that weighs em by dollar per mile.

Anyone on this forum have a engine that has made a million miles without having the head off or a rebuild? I've not really read anyone making that claim. Early 90s and older buses would be more reliable CAT engines.
I've worked on a few in med duty trucks for a small fleet I service twice a year and seems injector cups is a common thing to fail on the ones I've touched 7.2s These are annoying and take a special tool to deal with, I fabbed up my own removal jig for them rather than spending $600 on a puller.

While that's true that Cat no longer sells OTR engines-
If you go buy a new navistar its got a cummins under the hood.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist

Careful buddy your going to get eastcoast dude mad at you.

Really???



I'm not on here humping one brand or another. Just trying to let people know not to listen to myths on the internet and that if they buy a Cat 3126 their dick won't fall off.
In school buses we don't really have a huge selection of engines. ANY of the Cat, Cummins, or Navistar engines from the mid to late 80's on up to about 2003 are all about as good as each other. Condition is way more important than what color the block came painted.

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by M.ruel55@gmail.com

No one mentioned caterpillar engines. Million mile engines

Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist

"7.3 Super Duty Diesel" LOL, if he said that then you better move on.
I'm a big 7.3 fan but I wouldn't call them super duper duty LOL.
The yard your talking about having loads of buses to buy, is it in Ruckersville VA (M&M)? If so then that's where I bought mine.
The 7.3/T444E is a good engine BTW, personally I'd advise against detroits and CAT engines. IH/Navistar and Cummaparts (Cummins) are the flavors I'd suggest that are pretty decent for the dollar per mile you will spend taking care of them.
The 8.3 Cummins is the best you could hope for, in a short bus any you mentioned would be dandy. I'd say get nothing over 2004 year because after that EGR coolers and DPFs hit the market and they are costly to deal with and just shorten engine life.

If it's a E series platform, your only going to get (diesel) a 7.3 unless it's 03 and up then it's the 6.OH and I'd run from a 6.OH they are a pile of junk.
In the E series there are no trans options to chose from.

I love my 8.3. But... I would probably swap it in a minute for a nice Detroit. Why so much negativity towards Detroit? My last one had about 40k miles on a fresh rebuild. I put another 250k on it with very few repairs. I heard from the new owner earlier this year and it is still running strong.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

NO school buses come with million mile engines outside of crowns and some gilligs. And those take an inframe or two to make a million.

Most engines have had an overhaul or 2 by a million miles.. and does it really matter? who's putting a million on their school bus? even me who drives my busses all over the place will never come close to a million miles.. many people here probably average 10k or less per year except for the occasional expedition which was the intent of the original build where 10-15k Are put on right away..



there are a few who travel all over the country constantly and prob put 20-30k on a bus per year.. there was a guy here using a bus as his mobile truck tire repair rig and im guessing he puts on 40-50k per year..


a lot of the rest of the bus is going to wear out in 10-15 years without a lot of maintenance and upkeep so I think worrying about whether an engine goes a million miles or not is not so relevant..



we here about an OCCASIONAL engine failure on this forum.. but I dare say many of them seem to be on the maiden voyage where the bus was obviously broken before it was sold or was ill taken care of and broke..



others are related to some event.. over-heating, etc.. and theres the occasional.. "I was driving after 2 years and it broke".. but those arent real common here..



-Christopher

[PNW_Steve]

I would not mind a bit If we could put that "million mile motor" myth to bed.

Most of us here recognize the truth but I think that it can be misleading to New folks.

A new member here recently posted a "should I buy this bus" question. The seller told him that it had the T444e, which is a "million mile motor", with only 325k miles on it.

[PatrickBaptist]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Really???



I'm not on here humping one brand or another. Just trying to let people know not to listen to myths on the internet and that if they buy a Cat 3126 their dick won't fall off.
In school buses we don't really have a huge selection of engines. ANY of the Cat, Cummins, or Navistar engines from the mid to late 80's on up to about 2003 are all about as good as each other. Condition is way more important than what color the block came painted.

"buy a Cat 3126 their dick won't fall off." hehehe. Current condition and how it was taken care of is key, even the best will die quick if abused or neglected. I was really just trying to be funny mention you, I knew you would show up on this thread.

[PatrickBaptist]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

I would not mind a bit If we could put that "million mile motor" myth to bed.

Most of us here recognize the truth but I think that it can be misleading to New folks.

A new member here recently posted a "should I buy this bus" question. The seller told him that it had the T444e, which is a "million mile motor", with only 325k miles on it.

I like a 7.3 in a pickup well cared for that isn't overloaded all the time will make a million miles, in a full sized bus NOPE. I've got one in pickup that has been well used with almost half a million miles and it's not close to ready for it's first rebuild. The one in my bus has 91k on it and well that should last me my life easy since I'm not going to pile on the miles but in a bus the most a 7.3 prob will make is half a million before it's time for a rebuild.
But yeah anyone that hasn't worked on diesels I hear say "ah it's a diesel it will give you a million miles" especially out of sellers, I just laugh.
There is a feller on YT with a E350 work vn with 1.4 million on his org 7.3, they can go a very long way but when worked hard every mile that isn't going to happen, but toting around a 6500lb van and some cargo it will go a long way.

[EastCoastCB]

LOL I figured as much hahahaha

I laughed as I was typing that part about em falling off!

[PatrickBaptist]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

LOL I figured as much hahahaha

I laughed as I was typing that part about em falling off!

Awesome like a possum! lol. Glad we both were.

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist

I like a 7.3 in a pickup well cared for that isn't overloaded all the time will make a million miles, in a full sized bus NOPE. I've got one in pickup that has been well used with almost half a million miles and it's not close to ready for it's first rebuild. The one in my bus has 91k on it and well that should last me my life easy since I'm not going to pile on the miles but in a bus the most a 7.3 prob will make is half a million before it's time for a rebuild.
But yeah anyone that hasn't worked on diesels I hear say "ah it's a diesel it will give you a million miles" especially out of sellers, I just laugh.
There is a feller on YT with a E350 work vn with 1.4 million on his org 7.3, they can go a very long way but when worked hard every mile that isn't going to happen, but toting around a 6500lb van and some cargo it will go a long way.

I have seen one credible claim of 1million miles was in a 2001 Dodge pickup. The owner used all synthetic fluids, changed the oil every 3000 miles and drove almost entirely on Interstate highways.

Calling the 5.9 Cummins a million mile motor, based on that, would be akin to someone saying "I saw Shaqueel O'niel. All Americans are 6' 10" tall."