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01-27-2021, 08:29 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Shortbus/Shuttle to Tow a car
Hi Skoolie Rockstars! I'm an archaeologist and travel for my job. I am looking to convert a bus/shuttle that is less than 30 feet (preferably 26ish ft) and tow my 3100lb car behind it. I know it kinda depends on the weight of the conversion, so i'm going pretty minimal on the interior. Has anyone here towed with a shorter bus? Does anyone have ideas on understanding how much the bus will tow? I have put in hours of "research" which has left me with more questions than answers. So i'm hoping that y'all might be kind and send me in a more narrow direction. What size engine can accomplish this? If you are towing a car, what kinda bus do you have? I'm excited and very ready to buy, but also so very lost on my best option. Thank you in advance for your help
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01-27-2021, 10:37 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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First is your car towable? Some are not. Give us more information.
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01-27-2021, 11:01 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
First is your car towable? Some are not. Give us more information.
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Hi! Thank you for your reply! I have a 2011 prius, and from what I understand it can be towed by the 2 front wheels. I looked in the owners manual and it only says that it can NOT be towed with all 4 on the ground. Also on a prius chat, 2 people said they have towed it behind their RV. I'm double checking with the dealer next week when i'm back home for a couple days. I also found a couple people that have attached a hitch to their bus, this was on youtube, but there is a welder in my home town that works on random stuff like this, so I figured i'd give him a ring if i found a bus that will pull my car.
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01-27-2021, 11:08 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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You will need a tow dolly to do this and these are ok for front wheel drive cars. I have a roadmaster and it is a very good dolly. I still find it to be a pain though. I prefer flat towing. I have to use it for my Buick, and I have used it with my Liberty before I bought my tow bar. I would recommend that you get the dolly with electric brakes to keep the load off the brakes on the bus.
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01-27-2021, 11:15 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
You will need a tow dolly to do this and these are ok for front wheel drive cars. I have a roadmaster and it is a very good dolly. I still find it to be a pain though. I prefer flat towing. I have to use it for my Buick, and I have used it with my Liberty before I bought my tow bar. I would recommend that you get the dolly with electric brakes to keep the load off the brakes on the bus.
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definitely agree on getting a dolly with electric breaks, I think it's well worth the extra money to keep safe and nicer to the bus' breaks. Thank you for the recommendation of Roadmaster!
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01-27-2021, 11:16 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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I don't remember the weight of the Prius and I used to work at the stealership. It weighs more than a Corolla I do remember that. At the time none of the Toyotas were flat towable. We also sold Honda and they had a few that were flat towable. Go figure. The dolly weighs about 600 pounds, so add that to the weight of the car. You will be close to 4000 pounds plus or minus. Have you picked a bus out yet?
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01-27-2021, 11:21 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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This is the one I bought RM-2000-1 I have had 3 dollies over the years and this one was the best by far. Some are just junk. I know I had one. You have to watch the straps and re tighten them after about 25 miles.
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01-27-2021, 11:22 PM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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I read that they were heavier bc of the batteries? which kinda makes sense.
I have not picked out a bus yet. I'm struggling on making such a big decision. I've made most of my other smaller decisions for the living area, but just picking the "right" bus is quite overwhelming. I need to be able to tow, and there seems to be no cut and dry answer on which can town and which should really not tow. So, I'm looking at busses that look like they might tow, and trying to learn about that particular bus, which is taking forever and still not finding many answers. but i'm determined to make this part of my life, i'm so done staying in hotels for weeks while working.
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01-27-2021, 11:38 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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Just to kind of simplify this, look at the tires and wheels of the bus. If they are 22.5" wheels you won't have any problems. If they are smaller you will still be able to but more prep work will be needed. Type C buses with the engine in the front and protruding nose with 22.5" tires and wheels will just need a hitch and trailer brake controller and wiring. The running gear is plenty heavy duty enough to take it on. Some of the smaller short buses on 1 ton chassis are almost maxed out before you connect your car to the back.
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01-27-2021, 11:47 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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I've done the hotel thing when working on the road. Never again. The free breakfast? Hell they should pay us to eat it. The John Wayne toilet paper. Give me my bus! And by the way, after about 25 foot they drive pretty much the same. Their big. After you practice a bit, away from other cars and people of course, it'll become second nature.
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01-27-2021, 11:56 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 994
Year: 1999
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Not much to add that already not covered, but front-engine means a full frame to the back unlike the rear engine buses. But if you go with a tow dolly does not put any tongue weight, so it isn't a problem for a rear engine.
My advice for towing is don't get a bus with a huge rear overhang, which is how far the body extends past the rear wheel axle. Some or worse than others.
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01-28-2021, 12:34 AM
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#12
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: So Cal high desert
Posts: 172
Year: 1965
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: HPO
Engine: Cummins 220
Rated Cap: 1
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I have not towed with my bus yet but I have towed a lot with 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton pickups and even 5 ton 6x6 trucks in the Marines.
The tow vehicle needs to have the weight advantage over what is being towed (more is better), brakes that can handle stopping everything, and 'enough' engine power. All modern bus platforms are up to this job, starting at 1 ton and up.
Trailer brakes (usually electric) are great. Hydro surge brakes are kinda rare but also available. Either will need occasional maintenace like anything mechanical. Most don't get any.
I have towed with both tow dollys and trailers. I prefer trailers.
You cannot back up a tow dolly. Ever.
A trailer will cost more than a dolly but can also be used for more than just hauling a car.
Any commonly available bus will be able to tow your Prius. Buses get the 'big engines' anyway.
Much is said about not exceeding Gross Combination Weight Rating. As a practical matter, true, but it happens every day on our highways and its 99% "got away with it", 1% "disaster"
YMMV!
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01-28-2021, 03:03 AM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 994
Year: 1999
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Since the title also asks about a shuttle bus..my 1999 e450 cutaway w/v10 has a GVWR of 14,500, and it says the load capacity is 7000, so the bus itself must weigh about 7500.
A e450 shuttle bus with a 7.3 diesel or v10 should have no problem towing a car.
The ones with a 5.4 v8 probably not a good choice.
Also I saw a new way to tow a vehicle behind a motorhome..essentially it is like a tow truck, with a cradle that goes under the front tires and lifts them off the road, so the vehicle is like a 1 axle trailer, and can backup and load/unloads pretty quickly.
Not going to be inexpensive. For someone like me, I start to think can I make the wheel chair lift do this...
https://youtu.be/R-8_2fpVC3Y
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01-28-2021, 03:15 AM
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#14
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Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Port Huron, MI
Posts: 194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: MidBus
Chassis: Chevy Express 3500
Engine: 6.5L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 19
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Umm, how do you calculate what the bus must be from GVWR and towing capacity? The amount it can tow is not included in GVWR, it's in GCWR.
And unfortunately, some school buses (like my 1999 MidBus Guide DRW) do not print the GCWR on the door sill sticker. I have looked it up from Chevrolet, and the towing capacity rated for the Express 3500 with 6.5L turbodiesel was 7500lb, which is right about what it weighed when it had seats in it. I don't think I trust it to be hauling another of itself...
Each bus will vary based on drivetrain restrictions and on chassis restrictions. At least that's what I've found so far in my research.
As I found on the weeeb.... ( www.weigh-safe.com)
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01-28-2021, 03:22 AM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Port Huron, MI
Posts: 194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: MidBus
Chassis: Chevy Express 3500
Engine: 6.5L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 19
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Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by the "load capacity" Anyways, that diagram might be helpful anyways. Apparently it originated at Ford, for interests sakes...
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01-28-2021, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,478
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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I don't know of any school bus with a GCWR. School buses were not supposed to tow a trailer for safety reasons. If you want to get an idea look at a similar make and model with the same engine, transmission and chassis. This will get you close. The GVWR is the fully loaded design weight. The tare weight is your empty bus with seats removed. The difference is what you can install. When you weigh it you need to know the front axle and rear axle weights. This is very important to know and must be taken into account as you build. The rear axle weight has to have enough margin left to handle tongue weight of a trailer if you intend to tow a trailer. Back in the mid eighties my father bought a retired purolator courier delivery van with a Cummins 4bt to do a conversion. It was on a P-30 GM chassis and all aluminum body. After we removed all the shelves and the rear todco door we weighed it at the scale getting front and rear axle weights. We were just shy of 2000 lbs. of load capacity. Most of it at the rear. This caused a shift in floor plans. From there we started building. When finished he loaded it with fuel, water, food clothes and 4 adults and off to the scale we went. Guess what? The front axle was over by 50 pounds. With 2 of us getting out it was just barely under. He still had capacity on the rear to tow a small trailer. I wasn't worried about the front wheel bearings / spindles but the tires. You also have to look at that real close. Maximum or close to maximum loaded tires running at 65 mph on a hot day is a disaster going somewhere to happen. Remember the Ford explorer debacle? So we found some 19.5 rims and tires for the front and got some safety margin. The load rating on the tires is at the tires prime. As it ages it begins to decline. Low inflation causes heat build up and premature failure.
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01-30-2021, 08:31 PM
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#17
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
Just to kind of simplify this, look at the tires and wheels of the bus. If they are 22.5" wheels you won't have any problems. If they are smaller you will still be able to but more prep work will be needed. Type C buses with the engine in the front and protruding nose with 22.5" tires and wheels will just need a hitch and trailer brake controller and wiring. The running gear is plenty heavy duty enough to take it on. Some of the smaller short buses on 1 ton chassis are almost maxed out before you connect your car to the back.
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So theses type C's your talking about are the longer busses, like 40ft? I've seen more people tow with that size bus than the smaller one. it seems like it's because the smaller buses are about maxed out without the car, and a lot of them are gas not diesel, or at least that's what i'm gathering...
I have been thinkin about maybe upping the size, just for towing sake. But i worry about size limits in RV parks and state parks, and limiting where I can park it. I read that some places dont like skoolies to begin with, and I figured if i have a smaller one that maybe I would be able to slide through their radar. Have you run into any problems with that?
also the john wayne toilet paper is awful! He was a badass, i am not lol I bring my own tp, i wont subject myself to that sandpaper! lol!
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01-30-2021, 08:45 PM
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#18
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble
Not much to add that already not covered, but front-engine means a full frame to the back unlike the rear engine buses. But if you go with a tow dolly does not put any tongue weight, so it isn't a problem for a rear engine.
My advice for towing is don't get a bus with a huge rear overhang, which is how far the body extends past the rear wheel axle. Some or worse than others.
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Hi! thanks for replying! So what I'm understanding is that the front engine means that the frame is better for towing bc it runs the full length of the bus, unlike a rear engine. This part i dont understand though: "But if you go with a tow dolly does not put any tongue weight, so it isn't a problem for a rear engine." I'm most likely going to have a tow dolly with 2 wheels off the ground. I'm double checking at the dealer when I'm home next, but i'm pretty sure the tow dolly is the way i'll be going. So what youre saying is the tow dolly does NOT add weight to the tongue weight, so the rear engine is still an option if I use a tow dolly. Is that bc the dolly doesnt pull down on the hitch, but only pulls back on it?
thank you in advance for your kindness and time
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01-30-2021, 09:03 PM
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#19
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO pilot
I have not towed with my bus yet but I have towed a lot with 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton pickups and even 5 ton 6x6 trucks in the Marines.
The tow vehicle needs to have the weight advantage over what is being towed (more is better), brakes that can handle stopping everything, and 'enough' engine power. All modern bus platforms are up to this job, starting at 1 ton and up.
Trailer brakes (usually electric) are great. Hydro surge brakes are kinda rare but also available. Either will need occasional maintenace like anything mechanical. Most don't get any.
I have towed with both tow dollys and trailers. I prefer trailers.
You cannot back up a tow dolly. Ever.
A trailer will cost more than a dolly but can also be used for more than just hauling a car.
Any commonly available bus will be able to tow your Prius. Buses get the 'big engines' anyway.
Much is said about not exceeding Gross Combination Weight Rating. As a practical matter, true, but it happens every day on our highways and its 99% "got away with it", 1% "disaster"
YMMV!
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Hi! thanks for replying! So I do have a question about what you mean by 1 ton, that's a thousand lbs right? I was assuming most buses were much more than 1 ton. Could i ask you to explain this? (tell it to me like i know nothing, bc that is basically my baseline lol I've tried to learn through youtube videos but I end up with more questions than I started)
great reminder on occasional maintenance on the dolly and their breaks as well. I've seen the ones with hydraulic breaks, but I'll have to look into the hydro surge breaks (unless they are the same thing lol). What advantages do you think the hydrosurge breaks have over electric? I've heard hydraulics are better, but wondering your opinion.
Agreed on the not backing up a tow dolly, a few different people have mentioned that and I'm grateful for the heads up.
also, i'm asking tons of questions now so that i'm NOT part of that "1% disaster" group! here's hopin!
Thanks for your time and kindness!
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01-30-2021, 09:22 PM
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#20
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Various locations in Midwest
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble
Since the title also asks about a shuttle bus..my 1999 e450 cutaway w/v10 has a GVWR of 14,500, and it says the load capacity is 7000, so the bus itself must weigh about 7500.
A e450 shuttle bus with a 7.3 diesel or v10 should have no problem towing a car.
The ones with a 5.4 v8 probably not a good choice.
Also I saw a new way to tow a vehicle behind a motorhome..essentially it is like a tow truck, with a cradle that goes under the front tires and lifts them off the road, so the vehicle is like a 1 axle trailer, and can backup and load/unloads pretty quickly.
Not going to be inexpensive. For someone like me, I start to think can I make the wheel chair lift do this...
https://youtu.be/R-8_2fpVC3Y
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You have a Shuttle! that's exactly the kind I've been gravitating toward. How did you find out what the load capacity is? I'm not seeing it on the tag that shows all the GVWR/GAWR stuff on it (i think it is called a 'body tag'?) How do you like your shuttle? how does it do in the hills? I imagined it would be easier to drive than a longer bus, but i've also seen people say they think they all drive about the same.
Thank you for the heads up on choosing a 7.3 diesel or V10, over a 5.4 or V8. Thats the kinds of specifics I'm looking for, bc I really need to learn the differences, or at least know which is better.
Also, I watched that Youtube video and it is LEGIT!! that is really cool and looks super simple and easy to deal with. I was literally sitting here with gawking and marveling at that option, definitely not cheap, but whoa, talk about something I can easily deal with by myself. great find!
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