Starter problem

[jestrella]

Hi I have a 2002 bluebird International 3800 466
I replace my dead batteries after a year of Not using My schoolie. When I connect the positive the starter started cranking without any key an the ignition. Thinking it was a bad switch , I removed the switch from the bus. I proceeded to connect the battery and again it started cranking. I installed the switch back and turned the key to ignition on. When back to the battery and try connecting it and the starter cranked again ut this time the engine started but the starter continues to crank!
Anyone has an idea what is the problem?
Someone told me it might be starter relay but I don’t know where is it located!!!
Help please!

[cowlitzcoach]

Somewhere you are getting juice to the starter solenoid whenever the battery is hooked up.



The starter normally has just two wires going to it. The large wire (cable size) is coming directly to the starter from the battery in order to carry the very large load the starter requires to get the engine started. The small wire is coming from the key switch and should only be hot when the key is in the start position. Somewhere between the key and the starter solenoid the starter energize wire is getting hot and it is hot all the time. When it is hot all the time the starter will never shut off.



The ignition circuit is pretty easy to search out. Find out what color wire is hooked to the starter solenoid on the starter. Follow that wire up to the key switch. Sometimes it will travel through a relay that is part of a safety lock out that won't let you start if the emergency doors are still locked or if you are in gear with an automatic or without the clutch being depressed in neutral with a stick shift. If it is going through a safety lock out relay that relay may have failed and is in the permanent on position regardless of the key position.

[BlackJohn]

Here is a further simple test in addition to cowlitz's comments.


As he said there will be a smaller wire at the starter solenoid itself.


If you have multimeter and know how to use it, just disconnect the small wire and see if it has power with switch both off and on.

Key on should be the only time when power is on that wire and no power as you turn key to off.

If this is the case the starter solenoid itself will likely be the culprit. Try tapping it with a hammer and then retry with it connected again. Might be time to change out the solenoid if this doesn't workout.
This is easier than tracing the harness out as a plan of attack.


John

[jestrella]

Thanks for your suggestions!
It is going to be difficult to check the small wire with the starter cranking constantly! And there are 8 wires coming into the starter. Is there any way to see a diagram of what wire goes where?

[JackE]

8 wires sounds odd. Must be set up like GM cars of old. Attached to your starter will be a small can looking thing, almost like a small starter. That is the starter solenoid. There should be one large lug, like 3/8" bolt, that has a battery cable sized wire attached to it. There may be other wires of various size attached to this as well, disregard those. There should be a small lug with a single small gauge wire attached to it. That is the wire in question. Remove that wire and hook up the batteries, key off, and see if it still cranks. If it does, that solenoid needs replace or rebuild. If it doesn't crank, leave the batteries hooked up and test the wire you removed. That should only have power when the key is being held in the crank position. If it has constant power, you will need to trace it back to it's source and fix whatever is giving it constant power.

[BlackJohn]

Really good explanation JackE of procedure for OP to follow. There is not other way really. Until this is tried and result determined no further suggestions yet.
You need a helper OP. That solenoid should only energize with key on start and then cranking begins. It could be a bad solenoid if contacts inside are welded shut. As Jack said you have to prove that small wire works as it should off the key. If it does when disconnected from the solenoid, then it would be time to inspect the starter for bendix spring operation or not.
It does sound like the bendix isn't releasing but staying engaged to the flywheel, thus cranking the engine. Perhaps jar the starter in a few different places with a hammer, not really hard but good solid blows.

Keep at it, you'll get this.


John