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Old 02-26-2021, 05:57 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
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Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
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Here is the weight:

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Old 02-26-2021, 06:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ABBus View Post
No air suspension on the front.
Got it. If you want to lower the back, that's pretty easy. For raising the front, with the springs, then ignore my leveling valve suggestion. Sorry!
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Old 02-26-2021, 06:14 PM   #23
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regardless it is missing the clips that hold the two springs together and only one spring is shouldering the weight in its current state.
yes options for upgrade will help and knowing actual front end weight will help a load for upgrade.
fixing that spring pack to original ride height or knowing original ride height verse just changing broken to what i want?
higher front end plays with the tranny angle verses the output shaft u joint angle which transfers all the way through to carrier bearings and drive shaft to rear end angle verses what your rear end seal and or pinion angle are original verses what you change it to?
not a big deal if you go an inch or two above alignment for the driveshaft stuff.
but you might be happy buy fixing or replacing the existing spring packs with no upgrade? fix whats broken and maybe upgrade later or upgrade while you are there?
the spring packs should be connected together if you want to keep it and add better.
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
regardless it is missing the clips that hold the two springs together and only one spring is shouldering the weight in its current state.
yes options for upgrade will help and knowing actual front end weight will help a load for upgrade.
fixing that spring pack to original ride height or knowing original ride height verse just changing broken to what i want?
higher front end plays with the tranny angle verses the output shaft u joint angle which transfers all the way through to carrier bearings and drive shaft to rear end angle verses what your rear end seal and or pinion angle are original verses what you change it to?
not a big deal if you go an inch or two above alignment for the driveshaft stuff.
but you might be happy buy fixing or replacing the existing spring packs with no upgrade? fix whats broken and maybe upgrade later or upgrade while you are there?
the spring packs should be connected together if you want to keep it and add better.
Thank you for your advices. Some more precisions. The bus is a rear engine, so I don't think playing with the front end would have an effect on the pinion angle.
Second, I looked at the spring "pack", and I think the leaves are meant to be separated. The upper leaf has a "S" pattern at both ends suggesting it is ok, and it is supporting a part of the weight. I think the space between the leaves is meant to be. I may be wrong, though!
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:30 PM   #25
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Pictures:





There are no bump stops. Strange.

Edit: see how the shackles are at an angle on the second picture? I think there is room for a little lift. Maybe not the full 3.5 inches, but 2 would make the bus look less "nose heavy" and would improve the ground clearance on the front (the angle of the door it so low ...).
Add-a-leaf, new springs or air bags?

I've seen a fair amount of vehicles without bump stops. If there are no signs of them being removed, I would not worry much about that.


It's sure nice and clean under there. Really looks good.



I've done a lot of add a leaf springs over the years, and will likely never do it again. It is a bandaid at best. The ride suffers quite a lot. I would look at new springs first if it were mine. Reason being, the ride would be good and like it was meant to be from the factory. You have air on board, so I would not be afraid of an air system if I were spending my money. Because the springs are "sacked" and the bus sit low up front, the air bag would be responsible for the suspension travel of the first few inches. With that, the ride should not suffer IMO. The air system is a bit more involved than just unbolting and installing new like the new springs would be. But I dont think there is anything scary about it. The other good thing about the air IMO, is that like the rear suspension, it will not sag over time nor with weight increase.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:34 PM   #26
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Those air bag kits from 4 state look cool. I made my own for the front of a 1 ton Dodge power wagon that I shoe horned a Detroit 4-53 into back in 1981 and they worked real good. It also rode very nice. It was just a little bit front heavy. I wonder if the 4 state units would fit the OP's bus? It would more than likely ride better than having stiffer leaf springs made. But at 900 dollars it better. But then what would new springs cost? Also what condition are the spring bushings and shackels in. If I remember right it was a low mileage bus, so likely they are ok.

OH YA !!! I would love to see pics and/or video with audio of that rig.


Local man did that same engine conversion in a 70 chev pu. Another guy has a turbo perkins 4 cyl in a 71 ford pu. Fun projects of time gone by.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:52 PM   #27
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11680 mine is exactly the same 11680. My front gross axle rating is 13220. Just make sure you have enough tire. I think you may need some more help on the front.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:30 PM   #28
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Max single load for the front tires is 6610 lbs. Should be good.
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Old 02-27-2021, 12:05 AM   #29
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Given that you have spring suspension up front and air ride in the back is what is causing the difference in clearance between the tires and the wheel well. The air valve on the rear axle will add or vent air from the air bag to maintain a constant ride height. The front axle being a metal spring while being loaded heavily will ride lower. The spring pack is probably fine its just heavily loaded. Adding an air bag to the front could help level the bus front to rear but may result in a harsher ride due to the stiffer spring rate on the front.

Ted
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:18 AM   #30
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My personal experience with 2 trucks both with front leaf springs with engine swaps, basically the same situation, they both rode much better. Until Deezl Smoke pointed out their availability I didn’t know these were available for large trucks. This would be a great solution for the OP if he added a dump valve to it to help load and unload his riders.
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Old 02-27-2021, 10:03 AM   #31
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I might point out that it's fairly common for school buses to simply ride higher in the back than the front, as mine did when I bought it. Mine "sits level" when the air suspension goes flat (and even then, not perfectly level.)
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Old 02-27-2021, 03:56 PM   #32
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suspension

okay so around 11,500 front and rear around 21,500

Next question.... what is the rear axle gross vehicle weight? I am guessing 30 to 40.

Things to consider... IF they matter to you. Highway speeds, get the bus a little lower for better fuel economy, better handling in corners and/or "problems/emergencies". Do you have a rear tow hitch? If yes, what do you tow?

A little higher for in town or un improved roads. things like dragging across intersections with roads that have a lot of "crown" Speed bumps, train tracks, driveways with a lot of angle up or angle down.

simplicity. KISS keep it simple stupid. --- dont do anything. It works and at some point I am certain a heavy vehicle expert reviewed the chassis setup.

I think you can probably - just a guess at this point - set up the rear to drop when on the highway. AND set up the front to rise at slow speeds.

You can then add manual bleed controls to level the bus when parked, then drop stabilizer struts to hold the bus steady - stop that rockin around thing.

You have the actual weights, now what are the front and rear gross weight ratings.....


william
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Old 02-27-2021, 04:25 PM   #33
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okay so around 11,500 front and rear around 21,500

Next question.... what is the rear axle gross vehicle weight? I am guessing 30 to 40.

Things to consider... IF they matter to you. Highway speeds, get the bus a little lower for better fuel economy, better handling in corners and/or "problems/emergencies". Do you have a rear tow hitch? If yes, what do you tow?

A little higher for in town or un improved roads. things like dragging across intersections with roads that have a lot of "crown" Speed bumps, train tracks, driveways with a lot of angle up or angle down.

simplicity. KISS keep it simple stupid. --- dont do anything. It works and at some point I am certain a heavy vehicle expert reviewed the chassis setup.

I think you can probably - just a guess at this point - set up the rear to drop when on the highway. AND set up the front to rise at slow speeds.

You can then add manual bleed controls to level the bus when parked, then drop stabilizer struts to hold the bus steady - stop that rockin around thing.

You have the actual weights, now what are the front and rear gross weight ratings.....


william
I don't want to lower the rear, as at this height the transmission-axle alignment is just perfect. The driveshaft is very short, so even 1 inch lower makes the angles look not so good.
I think I'll try the air bags. I just have to find the right ones.
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Old 02-27-2021, 04:47 PM   #34
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please somebody send another picture of a spring pack that is not coupled together?
the weight is only on one spring in his pic when both springs should be shouldering the weight.
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Old 02-27-2021, 05:06 PM   #35
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The drive shaft angle is very critical on these RE buses so the rear has to be perfect. This is the problem with rear air ride / front spring ride and then doing a conversion. I did not weigh mine before the conversion not that it would have changed anything, but it would have been a good point of reference. The rear compensates and the front does not. This will also change the caster angle on the front axle reducing your positive caster. Caster angle will not wear tires but it can affect handling. To little caster and they will wander and follow ruts and wind.
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Old 02-27-2021, 05:21 PM   #36
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air suspension for the front...

I used Reyco-Granning for my rear air suspension.


no more rear leaf spings pricey though.. total kit $5000.

look into a system that has air tanks attached to each air bag... the tank the and the bag are aired up and connected all the time.... increases the air volume of the bag so when the bag is compressed the spring rate does not go up so much. Reyco called these things "ping" tanks. makes for a softer ride.


The more volume and lower pressure used in the bags will give you the "softest" ride in general terms.

I know you did not want to use spacer blocks.... but ask around the chassis manufacturer, These may be on the parts books already, four new Ubolts, two spacer blocks and you have a new ride height.

william
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Old 03-03-2021, 06:05 PM   #37
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Interesting puzzle. I’m just learning how to customize suspension. I wish it was easier. Changing the front height can change the steering geometry. Then there’s tire size and rubbing issues. Yadi Yadi yada Did you get it figured out??
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:21 PM   #38
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Interesting puzzle. I’m just learning how to customize suspension. I wish it was easier. Changing the front height can change the steering geometry. Then there’s tire size and rubbing issues. Yadi Yadi yada Did you get it figured out??
With leaf springs, a small lift will have a négligeable effect on the steering geometry.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:49 AM   #39
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With leaf springs, a small lift will have a négligeable effect on the steering geometry.
Yep. You have a good handle on this. I hope to see what ever option you choose up and running. I hope you will come back and update us with your progress and opinions on how it is working.
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Old 03-04-2021, 10:39 AM   #40
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Good to know a small lift is safe. I’d like to lift my Isuzu NPR Motorhome a couple of inches. Can I simply use blocks and longer U bolts? What I like about my skoolie is it’s high enough to crawl under and tinker with it or inspect it without jacking it up. The skirting on the Motorhome makes that harder.
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