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02-25-2021, 11:27 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Suspension
Hello!
I'd like to level the bus, currently the rear is almost 3 inches higher (top of the wheel to the wheel-arch) than the front. Seen from the side, it looks the front suspension is sagging and should be given the right height back.
Any idea how I could do that? To have the leaf springs "re arched"? Adding a leaf? Air helpers? Timbrens? I don't want to put blocks between the springs and the axle.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and/or ideas!
S
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02-26-2021, 12:20 AM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,820
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
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Suspension
Step one, weigh the bus, best if you can get corner weights. Second best is front axle and rear axle fully loaded.
William
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02-26-2021, 12:28 AM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 785
Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
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Do you know why the back is 3" higher?
I'd hate to do something to the front only to find it's really something going on in the back.
I've never heard of corner weights. I'll have to look that up.
__________________
Steve
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02-26-2021, 12:42 AM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicity
Do you know why the back is 3" higher?
I'd hate to do something to the front only to find it's really something going on in the back.
I've never heard of corner weights. I'll have to look that up.
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Well, I may have wrote it the wrong way. It is not the rear being 3 inches higher, but the front being 3 inches lower
Rear has air suspension, and the "sensor" is calibrated as it should. I think the issue is in the front.
I'll weight it, but will not be able to change the weight repartition, so we'll be back on the first question
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02-26-2021, 01:13 AM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Bay area
Posts: 324
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: Bantam
Engine: International T444
Rated Cap: 16?
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What kind of bus?
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02-26-2021, 08:48 AM
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#6
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Hillsboro Oregon
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABBus
Well, I may have wrote it the wrong way. It is not the rear being 3 inches higher, but the front being 3 inches lower
Rear has air suspension, and the "sensor" is calibrated as it should. I think the issue is in the front.
I'll weight it, but will not be able to change the weight repartition, so we'll be back on the first question
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You're on the right track. You have a good sense of the situation as you know to check the height of the rear axle per specification.
"Re-arching" front springs is looked at similar to putting re-cap tire on the front....frowned upon. Re-arching is a dying if not dead art that is very hard to come by with any good reputation anyway.
If your tire sizes are the same all around, and the front is leaf spring with no "Kneel" action like the mass transit buses where at the flip of a switch, the front end lowers to make boarding easier, then it very well could be the front springs simply need replacing.
If however, your springs are in good order otherwise, just sagging a bit, and you would like to have more control over the height, then an air system would be the direction I would start looking.
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02-26-2021, 09:38 AM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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If you want to "re arch" air suspension, you can adjust the rods on the leveling valve.
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02-26-2021, 09:59 AM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,515
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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Deezl Smoke, What kind of air system are you refering to? I'm assuming like ride rite units like used on pickups?
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02-26-2021, 10:13 AM
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#9
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Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Hillsboro Oregon
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
Deezl Smoke, What kind of air system are you refering to? I'm assuming like ride rite units like used on pickups?
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Similar. But manufacturers make front air kits for semi trucks etc. The buses are class 6-7 truck chassis. Just for example this one at 4 states. It is as you mention, like those used on pickups, but sized proper for the load of the model truck etc.
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02-26-2021, 10:15 AM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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I was being a bit lighthearted in my post, above (or below?). First, let's figure out and agree on what suspension you've got in the rear of your bus. You mentioned springs but also said you had air suspension in the rear. Do you have photos you can share? Air bags and spring suspensions are very different beasts and we'd approach the fixes differently. Photos of the front would be good, too.
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02-26-2021, 11:58 AM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAF2009
What kind of bus?
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IC RE 40ft.
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02-26-2021, 11:58 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
If you want to "re arch" air suspension, you can adjust the rods on the leveling valve. 
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No air suspension on the front.
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02-26-2021, 12:00 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
I was being a bit lighthearted in my post, above (or below?). First, let's figure out and agree on what suspension you've got in the rear of your bus. You mentioned springs but also said you had air suspension in the rear. Do you have photos you can share? Air bags and spring suspensions are very different beasts and we'd approach the fixes differently. Photos of the front would be good, too.
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Rear is air only with big bladders, no leaves. Front is leaves only, no air.
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02-26-2021, 02:33 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: arkensas
Posts: 1,109
Year: 1997
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: chevy
Engine: 3116 catapillar
Rated Cap: 71 now 2 humans 1 cat
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you should measure frame to ground on front and back. do not go by wheel cut outs
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02-26-2021, 02:45 PM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoore6856
you should measure frame to ground on front and back. do not go by wheel cut outs
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Frame to ground, front: 25 inches.
Frame to ground, back: 28.5 inches.
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02-26-2021, 02:56 PM
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#16
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Pictures:
There are no bump stops. Strange.
Edit: see how the shackles are at an angle on the second picture? I think there is room for a little lift. Maybe not the full 3.5 inches, but 2 would make the bus look less "nose heavy" and would improve the ground clearance on the front (the angle of the door it so low ...).
Add-a-leaf, new springs or air bags?
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02-26-2021, 03:12 PM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 3,160
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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it looks like you are missing the clips that hold the spring packs togetherand the single bottom spring is shouldering the weight.
and i dont recall seeing just two springs in a pack so that might be able to be improved upon.
look into the clips to hold the two springs together and see how that looks and feels to you
just adding helper springs will stiffen the suspension but then it gets into how stiff do you really want the suspension on the front.
that botttom spring right now is holding all the weight without the help of the top spring.
either way those springs look tired to me.
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02-26-2021, 03:44 PM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,515
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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Those air bag kits from 4 state look cool. I made my own for the front of a 1 ton Dodge power wagon that I shoe horned a Detroit 4-53 into back in 1981 and they worked real good. It also rode very nice. It was just a little bit front heavy.  I wonder if the 4 state units would fit the OP's bus? It would more than likely ride better than having stiffer leaf springs made. But at 900 dollars it better. But then what would new springs cost? Also what condition are the spring bushings and shackels in. If I remember right it was a low mileage bus, so likely they are ok.
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02-26-2021, 03:50 PM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,515
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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ABBus, Have you weighed that thing yet. You ned to know the front and rear at the least. All 4 corners would be better. A truck stop will have scales.
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02-26-2021, 04:02 PM
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#20
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
ABBus, Have you weighed that thing yet. You ned to know the front and rear at the least. All 4 corners would be better. A truck stop will have scales.
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I'll weight it today (front and rear).
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