T444e AT542 combo questions

[PB612]

Hi !

So I got a 1996 International Thomas 3600 Vista, the short one with short nose, with a T444e engine and AT542 Tranny

I would like to know if it’s possible to upgrade the tranny, since we live in Colorado z😁

It is possible to add a lockup to the tranny without changing the whole thing ?

If not, what would be a good transmission to put in place of the AT542 ?

It is something relatively easy to do ?

Thanks a lot !!

[Booyah45828]

Yes, it's possible to upgrade. Many different options are available, from 4 speed mechanical autos, to 6 speed electric autos, to a variety of manual transmissions.

You can't add a lockup to that transmission. You can put in a lower stall converter that can simulate a lockup torque converter, but you still won't achieve full lock up. And it does nothing to make the trans more robust. The only AT series allison that had a lockup torque converter was the AT1545, which is kind of rare and will require custom fab work to install.

An MT series allison is an option for you. It has a lockup torque converter, but is a larger, more robust transmission though. It will also likely require different parts to be sourced so it can be installed. But those parts won't be custom because the mt643 was an option from the factory.

No swap will be a direct bolt in, all will require some sort of parts changing to get it to fit right.

Is it changing a head light easy, no. But several on the forum have done so, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Truthfully, if you have to ask about it though, it's probably out of your skillset to accomplish.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by PB612

Hi !

So I got a 1996 International Thomas 3600 Vista, the short one with short nose, with a T444e engine and AT542 Tranny

I would like to know if it’s possible to upgrade the tranny, since we live in Colorado z😁

It is possible to add a lockup to the tranny without changing the whole thing ?

If not, what would be a good transmission to put in place of the AT542 ?

It is something relatively easy to do ?

Thanks a lot !!

If I lived in CO I'd be buying a MOUNTAIN bus, not a base model budget bus.

[AzironaZack]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If I lived in CO I'd be buying a MOUNTAIN bus, not a base model budget bus.

I feel like this kind of comment discourages participation on the forum. The OP is asking about the bus he has, not requesting a scolding.

I also have a T444 bus with an AT545. It's a shorty and just goes slow up hills. I'm happy with it but I have also considered a trans upgrade someday.

There are examples on this forum and elsewhere of people replacing the AT545. It's doable. I think for me I would look for an MT643 mated to a T444 already and either buy the pair or be very sure to get all the parts between the two.

[EastCoastCB]

The bus they're asking about is marginal at best in FLORIDA.
It would be FAR cheaper, FAR easier, FAR less a headache to sell the vista and buy a better suited bus for their purpose.

I've had several buses. When one doesn't suit me any more I sell it for more than I paid and find another one I like better. Its pretty easy.

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

The bus they're asking about is marginal at best in FLORIDA.
It would be FAR cheaper, FAR easier, FAR less a headache to sell the vista and buy a better suited bus for their purpose.

I've had several buses. When one doesn't suit me any more I sell it for more than I paid and find another one I like better. Its pretty easy.

Settle down there ECCB! Maybe ArizonZack didn't realize the rules here about having enough posts before he can have a valid opinion or question a life timer

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Oscar1

Settle down there ECCB! Maybe ArizonZack didn't realize the rules here about having enough posts before he can have a valid opinion or question a life timer

I didn't say "no one else has an opinion".
I gave mine.

What are you adding by arguing about this? What's your contribution to the OP?

Selling a lesser bus and moving up in the world isn't some horrible thing.

Mine's a dream. I kept trading up till I got what I really want/need.

Unless Op wants to throw 3-6 grand at a trans swap a bus swap is pretty straightforward.

[EastCoastCB]

My first response was "If i lived in CO I'd get a MOUNTAIN bus". I really don't understand what you're talking about "condescending".

I'm LITERALLY saying that 100% if I lived in CO and I owned a vista I'd hit FB marketplace and dump it yesterday. I'd then shop for a bus with a strong high horsepower engine and a stout transmission with a locking torque converter. A retarder would be awesome as well.

If I would do exactly what I'm advising I don't understand or appreciate your argument or your assertions. I'm giving advice to my best ability and without malice. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. You're certainly free to advise the OP in any way you wish as am I.

[brokedown]

I drove my Vista with the same combination through the mountains of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, California, Oregon, and Washington. I don't recommend it! A better transmission would change the game, and it is possible do do such a swap if you have the fortitude do do so. Another member did it recently and documented his process.

Charlie's advice may sound harsh until you've experienced 35mph up a mountain pass in top gear at redline, pleadign with your deity of choice for your transmission to not boil its fluid out and take the engine with it (split radiator!).

I recommend not taking this stuff personally, buses are made of metal not magic. The easy solution for most of us is to hit the brakes and swap to a mountain capable bus.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by brokedown

I drove my Vista with the same combination through the mountains of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, California, Oregon, and Washington. I don't recommend it! A better transmission would change the game, and it is possible do do such a swap if you have the fortitude do do so. Another member did it recently and documented his process.

Charlie's advice may sound harsh until you've experienced 35mph up a mountain pass in top gear at redline, pleadign with your deity of choice for your transmission to not boil its fluid out and take the engine with it (split radiator!).

I recommend not taking this stuff personally, buses are made of metal not magic. The easy solution for most of us is to hit the brakes and swap to a mountain capable bus.

Thank you, Josh.

[Ronnie]

Oh boy.... If this bus is NOT specail to you another bus would be the cheapest to do with the engine and trans you want.

otherwise the MT 643 can be used. It is a 4 speed (no overdrive)automatic with lockup torque converter. A bunch of stuff gets changed so look it up on the forum. "Cadillackid" has some real good info on this swap, and he has done it. Good man to listen to.

[musigenesis]

I bought a rusty bus and people frequently commented on how I should just sell the bus and buy a rust-free one instead (including EastCoastCB lol). Hearing this was always very discouraging to me, but the thing is it was still absolutely the correct advice to give. Just because something is discouraging doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

[cadillackid]

here's the deal on a T444E to an MT643.. it works super great *IF* you can find the adapter spacer ring required to fit it.. the MT643 swap I did was to a DTA360 whjere I just needed a readily available Flex-plate ..



I swapped an allison 1000 into a T444E bus.. both of the trans swaps i did are fantastic driving busses now.. HOWEVER they are neither Cheap nor for someone who hasnt turned quite a few wrenches.



the absolute most straightforward swap on this forum was a gentleman last year who bought a complete second bus and snagged all of the transmission parts, wiring, etc from one and moved it to his original.. his donor bus had the allison 2000 that he wished his Vista had. I believe we even suggested he move the Engine computer over so it retained the proper programming to run the new creation..



I dont know the OP's skillset or willingness to go look for parts.. the MT643 is a fine mountain transmission, but again there is a spacer that is darn near impossible to find.. there is a video on youtube where someone did the swap and it shows said spacer ring.. ive tried to help others find it.. its not easy..


most generally the T444E was the budget-friendly engine (instead of the DT466) engines.. the MT643 was an upgraded more expensive option.. so budget-minded districts typically bought T444E / AT545 combos (the AT542 is an earlier version of the AT545.. )..



the AT545 is a fine school bus route transmission where you do a lot of stop N go.. its designed perfect for that..

[Polarweasel]

Did some cleanup in the thread just now. Be nice, people, and skip the trolling and arguing...