Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-08-2017, 07:00 PM   #1
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
t444e- struck diesel in the valley!

2000 t444e 7.3L 3800 bluebird handibus with mechanical fuel pump.

well whether it was that relay that was crusty next to the fuses i cleaned or whether it was the new icp sensor i put on i dont know, but she finally cranked up a few times in a row successfully.
now ive noticed that i have about a half inch of diesel in the bottom of the valley between the fuel pump and the back of the engine. i know its new because ive stuck my fingers down in there several times recently trying to clean that valley out and that diesel definately wasnt in there before these successful cranks. im able to just get my fingers in to feel around the bottom of the fuel line connections and the top rim of the fuel pump. no sign of leaks there or anywhere around the fuel bowl or lines going to the fuel pump area. i wasnt able to get my fingers in to check on the front side of the fuel pump or the lines going in from that side tho.
so i cleaned the valley as well as i could without disconnecting anything and i had my friend crank her up while i watched down in the valley. there seems to be no leaking from any where on the back side of the fuel pump or any of the lines in that area of the valley. however after about 3 mins of running the engine the pool of diesel developed again in that same spot in the valley. it seems to be leaking back from the front side of the fuel pump area but im not sure its the pump or if its the line coming into the pump from the front side thats leaking. that line connects to the pump with about 3 inches of rubber line held in place by two band clamps. its very dirty under that line but im unable to get my hand in there to feel for diesel.
i wonder if that line is leaking and flowing back to the other side of the fuel pump, or if my fuel pump needs to be replaced? it seems to be pumping well and obviously id rather replace that small bit of line than a new pump.
what part of these fuel pumps go bad? should it leak when its going bad or just perform bad and/or not work?
thank you all so much for continuing to get to know/fix my home.

welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 02:34 AM   #2
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
The fuel pump has a weep hole like a water pump. The hole is in the left bottom side close to the hold down bolt. It is hard to see without a mirror and some well placed lighting. Sometimes you can see fuel squirting out or just dripping. The pump is less than $100.
Trailer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 12:10 PM   #3
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
so if it is that weep hole, then it would be located on the front side of the fuel pump that is closest to the radiator fan? as opposed to the back side that is close to the turbo, right?
also, what kind of fuel line should i use to replace that little rubber line that is coming out the front of the pump? is it high pressure? thank u
welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 02:08 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,757
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the 444E will have a maximum fuel pressure of 72 depending on which regulator you have installed.. if your regulator nut has the notches in it, you have the 72 PSI version, if the nut has no notches you should have the 47 PSI version..

the true diesel high pressure fuel is generated within the injector itself using engine oil pressure through a second pump called the HPOP...

-Christopher
cadillackid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 08:00 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
The pump is right in front of the turbo. The fuel pump is two stages. The line on the left is the suction from the tank. The line on the right is low psi to the filter. On the bottom of the filter is the line that feeds the third line on the bottom of the fuel pump. All the rubber is low pressure, just use hose that is ok for diesel.
Trailer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 08:47 PM   #6
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
so i took off the air tubes above the engine and was able with a toothbrush, mirror, and long screwdriver, get down to the bottom of the valley. i cleaned every possible place that diesel could be leaking down there and every corner that diesel might flow as it works its way back to the drainhole. i took off the clamp that holds the 3 metal fuel tubes to inspect for rubbing damage. i made sure to clean every bit of the rubber coming in or out of the fuel pump, as well as the pump itself. i made a mental note that all the rubber was showing signs of age and should probably be replaced soon.
then i put everything(except for the clamp) back together again and had my friend start her up. she fired right up while i watched from above the engine down into the valley with a flashlight. i then went to the drivers side of the engine to get a good look into the forward side of the valley. there was no sign of leaking at idle till i had my friend rev her up some. then i saw the diesel start to flow from under the pump down back torwards the drainhole.
i took the air tubes out again to examine the area and as verified by feeling with my fingertips that there was no leakage from the rubbers, or any other part of the valley, except from the fuel pump.
so ive ordered a new fuel pump and gasket. does anyone know the size of wrench that is on that back nut of the fuel pump? it looks like i may have to get a 1 1/2 inch open end wrench to get at it. also, is there anything i need to know about uninstalling/installing the new pump? or do i just stick it in and bolt it down; and then attach the lines? thank you
welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 07:39 AM   #7
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the 444E will have a maximum fuel pressure of 72 depending on which regulator you have installed.. if your regulator nut has the notches in it, you have the 72 PSI version, if the nut has no notches you should have the 47 PSI version..

the true diesel high pressure fuel is generated within the injector itself using engine oil pressure through a second pump called the HPOP...

-Christopher
I'm impressed, we need to start a thread called "stump the kid"
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 07:51 AM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,757
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdave View Post
I'm impressed, we need to start a thread called "stump the kid"

LOL.. sounds like this guy has a great handle on the leak now too..

sucks that its the fuel pump though..

remember though the 444E uses a different pump than the ford 7.3.. the 444E fuel pump is mechanical.. i only mention this because there are often BS FleaBay links that state fuel pump for both 444E and 7.3 Powerstroke, which is wrong.

id replace the rubber lines while working, and before you tear it apart, put a fuel pressure gauge on and check to see if you have the 47 PSI regulator spring or the 72, its a good time to update to the later spring kit while things are apart if you have the 47..

I noticed on mine when I updated, it quieted my low speed idle knock (#8 injector fuel starves and plunger bottoms out).. and also seem to give it a tad more spunk and smoothed the idle when its cold...

glad you found the leak!
-Christopher
cadillackid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 08:14 AM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Powerstroke used mechanical pumps on engines 97 and older. The bolt is 1 1/4. Take the bolts out of the filter housing mount so you can wiggle the hoses off of the pump. Unbolt the pump and pull it straight up, the plunger should stay attached to it. You should be able to change it in less than hour.
Trailer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 08:30 AM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,757
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I knew 97 was a pivotal year where things spread apart between navistar and ford as far as these engines go... the computers for sure when navistar went to diamond in 97 and ford had to be OBD-II by law in a consumer vehicle...

-Christopher
cadillackid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 04:37 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hempstead Tx
Posts: 213
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International
Engine: t444e
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailer2 View Post
Powerstroke used mechanical pumps on engines 97 and older. The bolt is 1 1/4. Take the bolts out of the filter housing mount so you can wiggle the hoses off of the pump. Unbolt the pump and pull it straight up, the plunger should stay attached to it. You should be able to change it in less than hour.
So this would work?

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....nid=482&jpid=2
ChiliChzPoopTart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 07:08 PM   #12
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
ok so it looks like i will need a 3/4 wrench to hold the fuel line in place while i turn the nut with a 1.25 wrench on the fuel pump, but really it is an injection pump.
definately replace all the little rubber connection lines while im in there. its definately a mechanical pump that looks similar to the one in that pic but i notice the one in the pic i didnt see the 1.25 nut on the backside of it. of course it only shows the frontside. yep definately one of the differences between the t444e and the powerstroke 7.3 is the location and kind of pump.
i will look into the possibility of updating that regulator if need be. thanks for the heads up, would be nice if i could get a quieter purr out of her at idle too.
i was looking at scanners now that u mention it. because navistar uses diamond does that mean that i wouldnt be able to use a simple obd2 scanner like the cheap ones found on ebay?
welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 07:08 PM   #13
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
so i took out the two lines from the top of the fuel pump, and i took out a line from the front of the pump on the bottom and another from the back of of the pump on the bottom. i took off the bolts on the right and left side holding the pump down. now i am trying to pull the pump straight up and it doesnt want to come up. do i need to gorilla it up or am i doing something wrong?
welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 09:04 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Just pull straight up. Sometimes they are pretty stuck.
Trailer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 02:01 AM   #15
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 73
Year: 2000
Coachwork: blue bird
Engine: international 3800 t444e 7.3L
i watched a vid warning about losing your anvil (the bottom plunger part of the pump that goes into the engine), and i followed their suggestion, which was to turn the main crankshaft a little in order to raise something in the engine that blocks the hole so the anvil cant drop down into your oilpan.
i think that loosened it up enough that it would start to twist a little bit. i had to gorilla it out while twisting. i guess i didnt realize the circle where the bottom of the pump mates with the engine was so thick.
it finally popped out. i was very careful not to bump the anvil on the engine wall as i raised it out just out of paranoia. upon examination after a cleanup, the weep hole was still steadily weeping. so i guess that answers that; worn pump.
i just hope it goes back together quicker than it came apart
someone suggested i put grease on the anvil. do u guys do that?
welcomehome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.