Tire help

[ewo1]

Hope you all find this helpful, from my AMTRAN service manual.

I-Beam type front axles, international by spicer.

Enjoy!

[cadillackid]

this is great stuff!! while I dont have the press for actually doing the bushings and the pin itself I can at least see if mine need attention and then send it to the local truck shop that works on this stuff.. the other bus acted alot different than this one when its pin bushings were trashed.. it was just plain loosey.. this one the steering is just so sensitive.. barely touch it and it feels like it wants to take off.. but it is also pretty stiff and even after alignment the wheel doesnt return all the way to the straight position on its own. .. ill put it in the air and learn!!


thanks for all the help

[Booyah45828]

Could be a caster issue.

If you switched from a bus that was spec'd for a bias ply tire and then converted it over to radials, maybe the caster angle is at zero or near zero.

It's been a while since I've heard of something like that, but you never said which bus you were working on, I know you have some classics in your fleet.

[cadillackid]

Interesting , yeah it was converted at some point before I got it . It had 9x20 tires according to the tag and no R in there.. someone converted it to 22.5s at some time .. it’s the DEV bus. 90 chassis 91 body. iH3800 with Dayton spoke .

Now I’ll have to look and see if I have the alignment sheet and see what they set the caster at. I recently had it aligned. I do it about every year just because some of the roads I drive suck.

[JackE]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Now I’ll have to look and see if I have the alignment sheet and see what they set the caster at. I recently had it aligned. I do it about every year just because some of the roads I drive suck.

How much are you paying for an alignment in your area?

[cadillackid]

the goinmg rate seems to be in the 150-200 range.. the tire shop i use cuts me a deal at 125

[Native]

That does seem like a decent deal.

[JackE]

It sure does, I just had my Escalade done and it was $125. I have been a bit afraid to call and ask, figured it would be $300 or more.

[Rock-N-Ruth]

Can you check the kingpins yourself? Absolutely. It's not a hard job. If your kingpins are worn to the degree they ar causing shoulder wear on your steer tires it will be evident if you follow this simple procedure. Play say 12 ton jack under the axle on one side of the front of the bus. Jack it up so that your steer wheel is no more than 2 in off the ground. Place a long steel bar under the tire. Lift up on the end of the bar thus prying up words. There should be no travel. If you get any travel the Kingpin is worn. Replacing a Kingpin requires some big tools for removing the wheel and the axle hub, it requires you to have some physical strength, but it's not something that is beyond the capabilities of someone with basic mechanical skills. What will it cost if you take it to a truck garage? Expect each Kingpin replacement to run two and a half to three Shop hours plus the cost of the part which will be inflated by the shop. I don't know about truck shops in your area but the nearest truck shop to me charges $195 per hour and I think that is really cheap. Not a bad idea to get some help and learn how to do it. Good luck

[cadillackid]

the physical size and strength is my limitation.. i can probably rent the kingpin press and maybe even the tire dolly to help with the rim.. I do have dayton spoke so the rim weight is less than a disc rim.



my tires are wearing beautiofully.. meaning they arent wearing much.. even with all the miles i drive the bus.. but it likes to wander.. the steering seems pretty tight.. in fact out on the road even the least little input to the steering wheel seems to amplify and send the bus further across the lane than I want causing me to correct back.. so at times I just barely ever so slightly put a little pressure on the wheel each way as needed to stay straight.. I know this bus has less turns lock to lock than any of my other 3.. when I got the gearbox rebuilt i asked about a different one and was told by the steering shop that the box i have is the correct one for the bus..



the rebuild did solve the problem i had which was sloppy steering and power steering leak..



however my wheel doesnt return to center completely on its own after a turn.. im suspecting that perhaps my kingpin bearings are binding making it diffcult to give the correct amount of input..

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

however my wheel doesnt return to center completely on its own after a turn.. im suspecting that perhaps my kingpin bearings are binding making it diffcult to give the correct amount of input..

You would be right, and I would get this fixed as soon as possible. I honestly wouldn't drive that thing anywhere else but a shop or somewhere you can fix it yourself if you are able.

The company I trained at put me with a complete idiot for a co-driver (another story) in a Freightliner Cascadia with exactly this problem, exacerbated by a power steering pump that dropped assist at idle. That's TWO out-of-service violations. I finally had to threaten the company with a voluntary Level 1 inspection before they would do anything about it...

Ah, my rookie days with the Crooks Recruiting Super Truckers... And also where most of my gray hairs came from... At least it wasn't the Stevie Wonder Institute For Trucking...

[schoolbuscraig]

A good alignment technician, will check the chassis before proceeding with an alignment! Two things they make money off selling parts and they also don’t want you coming back in 3 days with a alignment pull. Looking at the tires, I would say it’s a toe issue. How much did the weight change on your bus converting it? Did the weight shift to the rear? Is the rear of the bus spring or air ride? I would assume that the front is spring ride. Another thought would be finding a local school bus garage, see if the technicians might do side work!
I have traded off buses with over 200,000 miles on them and not replaced king pins.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by schoolbuscraig

I have traded off buses with over 200,000 miles on them and not replaced king pins.

It all comes down to how they were used and maintained. The truck I mentioned above had 455,000 highway miles, very little turning and lots of miles between movement. It also wasn't likely to have had proper PMs done, being a fleet truck that was getting lease-purchased out after 4 years.

A school bus, on the other hand, there's really no way to tell how long the kingpins will last before they wear out. Every route is different, and without service records, there's no way to know what was lubed, what was not.

But if the kingpins are seizing at hard lock, that's a serious problem. What if they seize going down the road at 60 mph? Food for thought...

[Dirtdoctor]

First of all, ypu don’t know if those tires did t come off of another vehicle prior toYour purchase. Buy new tires, my am trans I’ve added the 22.5r so I can get a better rpm and mileage issue. But get new tires and then watch the wear. Find a reputable heavy truck shop and ask them for an front end inspection. But new tires are first. Cause bad mechanics can “prove” the repairs based upon tire wear. And can actually replace stuff that is probably fine. How many miles on the truck? My semi truck has 300,000 miles on off road and terrible potholes on asphalt and the king pin are still just fine.


New tires then have it checked out. Btw. Crappy tires can kill you. Don’t risk the blowout of a steer tire. Cause you are worth more than that.
Cheers

[s2mikon]

If I may add my 2 cents. I used to manage a heavy truck front end shop so I will help you with this. King pin tire wear shows up on the inside of the tire that has the loose king pin. Loose king pins cause negative camber. As some others stated it is simple to check. Excessive tow in will show up on the outside of the tire, and will affect the right tire more than the left tire. Excessive toe out will wear the inside of the tires and effect the right side more than the left. I hope this helps. All of these shops now use laser/computer alignment equipment and the old guys with the knowledge are in retirement/rest homes now.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the physical size and strength is my limitation.. i can probably rent the kingpin press and maybe even the tire dolly to help with the rim.. I do have dayton spoke so the rim weight is less than a disc rim.



my tires are wearing beautiofully.. meaning they arent wearing much.. even with all the miles i drive the bus.. but it likes to wander.. the steering seems pretty tight.. in fact out on the road even the least little input to the steering wheel seems to amplify and send the bus further across the lane than I want causing me to correct back.. so at times I just barely ever so slightly put a little pressure on the wheel each way as needed to stay straight.. I know this bus has less turns lock to lock than any of my other 3.. when I got the gearbox rebuilt i asked about a different one and was told by the steering shop that the box i have is the correct one for the bus..



the rebuild did solve the problem i had which was sloppy steering and power steering leak..



however my wheel doesnt return to center completely on its own after a turn.. im suspecting that perhaps my kingpin bearings are binding making it diffcult to give the correct amount of input..

How often are you greasing the kingpins, and do you jack it up so the grease gets all the way around the kingpin? A dry kingpin will do just what you are describing. I do mine every 5000 miles.

[Ronnie]

One more note about the tire wear. Once a tire is worn much more on one edge then the other it will continue to wear that way as it is now effectively two different diameters and will fight itself. At this point it becomes the spare or gets moved to a trailer.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

How often are you greasing the kingpins, and do you jack it up so the grease gets all the way around the kingpin? A dry kingpin will do just what you are describing. I do mine every 5000 miles.

I dont jack it up.. I do hit them with the grease gun in spring and in fall each year.. interesting idea about jacking it up.

[Booyah45828]

You're supposed to jack it up to grease them, unless it's a special type of pin that doesn't require it. Like ronnie said, they want you to jack it up so the whole bushing is greased, not just the unloaded side. However, in my experience, if the pins are tights, you won't really have a loaded/unloaded side, and the whole pin will be greased.

And doing it twice a year though, you're likely fine. Grease will travel, and it will do so every time you turn the wheel, so the chances of you having a dry pin are very little.

Originally Posted by schoolbuscraig

I have traded off buses with over 200,000 miles on them and not replaced king pins.

Most of our buses are like that now. Not because of excellent service or an easy life, but because we recommend to the districts to go with the heavier front axle. Brake life goes up, king pin and tie rods are almost never replaced, and tire wear stays pretty consistent.

These are all on FE engined buses, an RE or CE bus might not need the larger front axle, but the FE does because of all the weight that is placed ahead of it.

[cadillackid]

doesnt road quality have a lot to do with kingpin longevity? being in ohio there are so many road divets that give a good Kuwang!! quite often.. vs if you are in states with smoother roads?



the texas bus I got needed kingpins and I know for at least the last 7 or 8 years of its service it travlled I290 in houston which was under construction and a nightmare..



my DEV bus lived its whole life in Ohio on our crappy winter-salted roads.. amazingly the bus didnt rust out.. although some body panels were replaced.. but nevertheless it seems all those clangs and bangs would shorten the life of any steering components