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Old 08-17-2021, 04:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
Housing

https://www.agkits.com/cummins-4b-6b...l-housing.aspx


Flywheel
https://www.agkits.com/cummins-5-9l-...l-3921263.aspx


There may be an adapter and such for the flywheel that is needed too.. not sure.
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Old 08-18-2021, 08:41 AM   #42
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A donor isn't necessary. But makes it a whole lot easier, and probably cheaper in the long run.

You might not have to buy the whole vehicle. Cummins engines were used in a wide variety of vehicles, a junk yard might have the whole group of parts you need.
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Old 08-18-2021, 09:07 AM   #43
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I would need the measurement from the front of the transmission mating surface to the rear of the oil pan. Put a strait-edge against the front going down to the floor, and measure from there back to the rear-bottom of the pan.


When you say "housing", that holds the flywheel and the torque converter inside? That is what adapts to the different sizes (SAE2 & SAE3)?


If that housing is a different thickness for SAE2 & SAE3, I need the thickness of the SAE2 also.


Thanks so much for your help.

I'll try to get you measurements tonight.


The flywheel housing bolts to the back of the engine.. and adapts the engine to the bell housing pattern (SAE2, 3, etc)..


The converter is in the bell housing of the trans.
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Old 08-24-2021, 09:09 PM   #44
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Good news for me.


I saw an RV up on a lift outside a shop that does tranny work. They said no, the tranny was too big, they don't do "swaps", but yes they work on Alison 1000 models. "My tranny is no bigger than the one in that RV, and it is smaller than the Allison 1000". He just looked at me, didn't know what to say. But still, he wouldn't touch it. Wouldn't even let me get the word in that if he would just do the physical unit swap, I would handle the electronics change he was scared of. I don't want no premadonnas working on my bus, so no way was I going to press the issue.


But he referred me to another shop out of town that does "truck drivelines and transmissions", where the guy was even more adamant that he was not, get that, not, going to work on my bus, no, never, not today, not tomorrow, not going to, he only does manual trannies, blah, blah, blah, nothing personal.


"But try this shop in the next town" he says.


So on down the road I scooted, doing 45-50 in a 55, barely using the pedal to start and stop to keep the RPMs down.


"Why did he send you to me?!?!" the guy exclaims! "I'm backed up for a month to 6 weeks. And I got 2 guys out sick. Try this shop down the road a bit more....." We talked a bit for a minute, and he said he wasn't against doing it, and I said I wasn't in a hurry, it still drives. I mentioned I was was a mechanic, and just didn't have the space to do it. Then I hit him up to do the job myself at his shop, and he said yes, I could do the grunt stuff, and they could help me get it in and out, and I could save money. I told him the most important thing for me was just being able to get the job done, saving money was nice, but I just need the space to do the job.


So I told him I would get everything together that I needed to do the job, the rebuilt tranny, any other parts, etc, and he said to call him then.


That's a load off my mind, because if it dies on me, I now have a place to tow it to.


But then I just was reading another thread where some guy had AAA RV package, but they wouldn't tow the bus, even registered as a motor-home. They promised me they would tow mine when I signed up.
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Old 08-24-2021, 09:41 PM   #45
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At this point, having read in another post that the MT653 is one heavy beast, and that even though it is said that it can be mounted by the bell-housing only, having a rear mount also would be better. That means adding a cross member, likely right over the front axle. That might not fit, and it would likely need to all be installed to check for final clearances since it would be real tight.


Plus all the extra weight, all on the front axle. I think it was 300lbs in the AT545/1000/2000 models vs 600lbs in the MT643/MT653 models or close to that, if I read it correctly, and remember correctly (it was days ago, and I read a lot of stuff).


And like I said, I do far more highway travel than "off-roading". That FS road that killed my AT545 is a weird fluke. It would be nice to have a granny gear to "crawl" up a short dirt road to a campspot or two that I can think of offhand, not even needing the extra-low gear to climb a super-steep hill, "crawling" on a dirt road can keep the motor/tranny happy while not thrashing your vehicle by going too fast. But that is a couple days a year, and other spots are nearby.


So I'm thinking of the Allison 2000 series, since it has a lower first gear and overdrive gears than the Allison 1000, while the torque is in the same range (much higher than the AT545). Since I have the 3.56 rear-end, I think that is the best way to go. (comments?) The Allison 1000 says it handles up to 340 HP, while the 2000 says only 300 HP, but I think torque spun my clutches, not HP. I was only doing 1200 RPM or something up that steep hill and you could just feel the strain.


However, I think cadallackid said in his RedByrd swap that the 1000 has a lot of aftermarket support that I may need for the computer stuff. Since I live in it, plug-and-play may be worth it. Still gotta do more research. Back to the library tomorrow for power.


Anybody have any comments on choosing a torque converter? I see they come in different ratios. Would I simply be better with the Allison 1000 and a TC211 (2.05:1) vs. the Allison 2000 and TC222 (1.63:1); and there are other ratios in between.....
Or should I go with the Allison 2000 and the TC211 (2.05:1)?
Or the Allison 1000 with the TC222 (1.63:1) will be plenty for my short/mid bus, and give it better throttle response?


decisions, decisions, decisions


I took it on a drive the other day, got lost, and ended up in hill country, and hit a hill almost as steep at the FS road that toasted this tranny. Only it was only 20-50 up, not several hundred feet of climbing; done in 10 seconds or less with momentum, not several minutes of strain and stress twisting slowly around turns. It made it, no complaints. It still pulls from a stoplight, but maybe not as much. But hit the fuel pedal, and the RPMs go up, still can't get above 55-60 on the highway.
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:02 AM   #46
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It's nice you found a place at least to work on it. If he's that far behind, maybe you can do some cash jobs for him to help him out. Even having someone to move parts and sweep floors after a job is a timesaver in my books.

Mt653 is heavy, 600 lbs dry, as is the mt643 at 500 lbs dry. It's nearly double what a 545 weighs. That's why they had the "option" of an additional cross member on the rear. It isn't necessary, but it makes the whole engine/trans assembly more stable and rigid, especially with a v8. The Inline 6's being longer didn't seem to cantilever as badly.

Do you have air or hydraulic brakes, aka do you need a driveline parking brake? That's important to know before buying anything.

AFAIK the 1000 never came installed behind an isb. They always spec'd one of the models of 2000's. They're nearly both the same transmission though, so the hp/tq aspect isn't of concern. The aftermarket support is also there to make them handle more, although it's likely unnecessary because your isb is probably only 185hp anyways.

You can install a 1000 no problems.

Just a thought, but maybe you can find a donor from an old rotten motorhome. Steal the trans/harness. Sell the engine and appliances, break even or come out ahead in the deal. Your new found shop owner friend might not be so keen on the idea though.

CAC can get you what you need for the swap, but have your checking account full, as it won't be cheap.
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:14 AM   #47
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I used CAC to get me my 1000 and harness and their version of a throttle however to do again I’d go to Jason at transmissiontuner dot com for harness and TCM (my CAC TCM sits in a drawer now).
My transmission is a suncoast built unit for 500HP and 1000 ft lbs of torque.

Booyah is right it did take some serious coin to do but for a rig I drive all over the country it has been well worth it.
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Old 08-25-2021, 06:44 PM   #48
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thanks again Booyah and Cadallackid.


Air brakes, air parking brake, no drum on the driveshaft. No problem there.


I keep getting a check-engine-light on my dash. It comes on and off. I bought it that way, and it was "fuel pump voltage low" or something like that, and the dealer didn't know what it meant (they were clueless fools anyway). But they told me it was not an immediate problem. In working on the tranny cooler lines years ago, I had to disconnect and re-connect the in-tank pump wiring connector, plus that circuit was hand-modified to run though a temp-sensor on the motor head (cuts off the fuel if it overheats), and I had to disconnect and re-connect all those wires. The "check engine light" went out. I also didn't have high-idle, cruise was intermittent, and so was the dash-cluster select toggle-switch (BlueBird was too cheap to put separate gauges in for water temp, oil pressure, fuel level, voltage, so they put it all on one gauge which shows fuel normally - they say those others "distract" the driver - load of cr*p - they prevent problems - there is no warning until voltage goes below 10V and you are stuck; or you are overheated, stuck, and maybe blew a head gasket; or your motor wears prematurely because oil pressure is always low). Anyways, I disconnected them and they all worked after they were re-connected. So I hope the current code is the same, not a new problem. It comes on when I idle for a while, though (I put it on high-idle when I do).



Long story short, I need to scan my computer. I was thinking a BlueFire and tablet were in the works, but now I'm thinking a Nexiq or clone, and the Cummins Insite software, if I can get it, if I need it to change params for the new e-tranny. I also want to up my HP from the 180-190 I think it is now. But I think the max is 230HP (?) without new hardware in the motor itself, so I'm well in the range of these tranny's max inputs.


Yea, I was thinking about working FOR the guy, not merely with him. I really want to stick to keeping up with the latest tech in passenger vehicles, though. I'm falling behind in that as it is..... but maybe some fast cash would be nice
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Old 08-25-2021, 10:01 PM   #49
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Oi ! hey

I messaged him. He said he still had the transmission and said " I have all the parts to put it in" I think he has cables, tcu flywheel and all.... He will not come down in price but it is sitting in the garage. I am thinking about buying it, but I would not use it for at least a couple of years.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...94835764107091

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Old 08-26-2021, 07:58 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
I keep getting a check-engine-light on my dash. It comes on and off. I bought it that way, and it was "fuel pump voltage low" or something like that, and the dealer didn't know what it meant (they were clueless fools anyway). But they told me it was not an immediate problem. In working on the tranny cooler lines years ago, I had to disconnect and re-connect the in-tank pump wiring connector, plus that circuit was hand-modified to run though a temp-sensor on the motor head (cuts off the fuel if it overheats), and I had to disconnect and re-connect all those wires. The "check engine light" went out. I also didn't have high-idle, cruise was intermittent, and so was the dash-cluster select toggle-switch (BlueBird was too cheap to put separate gauges in for water temp, oil pressure, fuel level, voltage, so they put it all on one gauge which shows fuel normally - they say those others "distract" the driver - load of cr*p - they prevent problems - there is no warning until voltage goes below 10V and you are stuck; or you are overheated, stuck, and maybe blew a head gasket; or your motor wears prematurely because oil pressure is always low). Anyways, I disconnected them and they all worked after they were re-connected. So I hope the current code is the same, not a new problem. It comes on when I idle for a while, though (I put it on high-idle when I do).
Get that checked sooner rather then later. On the ISB the lift pump is vital to the life of the vp44 injection pump. When it fails, the engine will continue to run normally, but the injection pump will no longer receive the excess fuel it needs to cool itself. Medium duty vehicles were fortunate enough to throw a check engine light if the pump stopped spinning/didn't take power. Dodge never incorporated that, and as a result, most owners continued driving ruining the injection pump.

So check your fuel pressure, before you ruin your injection pump and need to shell out a thousand dollars to replace it. A lot of the dodge pickups we installed a gauge so the owner can keep track of pressure. On a few of them I installed a 5 psi NO switch in the fuel system that would remove cam signal if the pressure went below that. Removing the cam signal would then cause the light to illuminate, showing something wrong.

Regardless, I'd get it looked at. FYI, the lift pump is on the side of the block, not in the tank.

And yes, those bluebird dashes that only show one thing at a time are a pain. The LED's would go out on them too. Just absolute cheap garbage they tried to pull off. They're not the only ones to do that, a lot feel that it's better if the driver is clueless to what's going on, rather then being distracted by watching gauges.

Most drivers aren't like that, but some drivers, I don't think they're too far off.
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:00 AM   #51
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I messaged him. He said he still had the transmission and said " I have all the parts to put it in" I think he has cables, tcu flywheel and all.... He will not come down in price but it is sitting in the garage. I am thinking about buying it, but I would not use it for at least a couple of years.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...94835764107091

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That's cheaper then a core price FWIW. So long as the cables, tcu, adapter, and flywheel work for you, I'd jump on it. It can sit for a few years and not hurt anything. Just keep it sealed up and covered.
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:21 AM   #52
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that price is good esp if it comes with the harness and TCM.. those alone are worth $$$ , if you have the space to shelf it then id be on it!!
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Old 08-26-2021, 06:46 PM   #53
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Get that checked sooner rather then later. On the ISB the lift pump is vital to the life of the vp44 injection pump. When it fails, the engine will continue to run normally, but the injection pump will no longer receive the excess fuel it needs to cool itself. Medium duty vehicles were fortunate enough to throw a check engine light if the pump stopped spinning/didn't take power. Dodge never incorporated that, and as a result, most owners continued driving ruining the injection pump.

So check your fuel pressure, before you ruin your injection pump and need to shell out a thousand dollars to replace it. A lot of the dodge pickups we installed a gauge so the owner can keep track of pressure. On a few of them I installed a 5 psi NO switch in the fuel system that would remove cam signal if the pressure went below that. Removing the cam signal would then cause the light to illuminate, showing something wrong.

Regardless, I'd get it looked at. FYI, the lift pump is on the side of the block, not in the tank.

And yes, those bluebird dashes that only show one thing at a time are a pain. The LED's would go out on them too. Just absolute cheap garbage they tried to pull off. They're not the only ones to do that, a lot feel that it's better if the driver is clueless to what's going on, rather then being distracted by watching gauges.

Most drivers aren't like that, but some drivers, I don't think they're too far off.
OK, thanks for the heads up.


I'll look into it. But I'm confused. I traced those wires by hand. What is in the tank that has power disrupted by a coolant-temp/head-temp switch? Or that's what it looked like. I also just replaced the air-compressor (you remember, thanks for your input on that) and had looked at everything on that side of the block. All I remember is the ECU and the air-intake heater fuses mounted on the block. I gotta open that doghouse and look closer.... That injector pump, if I'm looking at the right thing (on the front-top of the block, intake side, just passed the fuel filter housing), has a rebuild sticker on it already.


That is a good price on that Allison 2500PTS. What to do with the PTS? power a winch? Doubt I'll drive into something that would stuck me. I thought that hill was doable, even as I thought "this is gonna suck". But backing up seemed like a worse option. In hindsight, I'd back-up, slowly, wait till dark to back onto the main highway, when traffic would be low. But I'd never intentionally drive into sand or mud or something with the bus.


But like was said, it could be a core, when cores cost $1000.


I'm assuming I can't just pull off the PTS, that I'd need the proper tail for the tranny in that case.


And the TCM, who knows if it's good. That's a long ways away for me to send cash and him to send parts, and if they don't work or are not rebuildable, it's a long drive to come complain and look for $$$ back.


And I don't do Facebook. Could I even contact him without creating an account? Guess I could find out if motivated.


Besides, what "shelf" are y'all talking about? In my bus? They be full. Space on the floor, yes....


I'm thinking the best would be to find a unit locally and have it rebuilt locally. Junk-yard style.


I started looking into Jason's website (as sugested by Catallackid). $10K+ for an Allison tranny swap? Double what I was thinking. But $1000 for the driveshaft shortening? I seem to remember paying under $100 to have a Toyota U-joint yolk added to the end of my Nissan's shaft (deleting the Nissan yolk), and that is supplying the parts. Plus they balanced it.


$2000 for his TCM, I think it said. I think that includes many hours of his tuning time? Not sure, gotta contact him still and ask questions (like will his TCM work with an Allison 2000 - that seems unclear to me on his site?)


And it says it will definitely work with Cummings from 1998.5-2002. But it must have the 9-pin connector, mine looks like 5 or 6. So ...... what?


Like Catallackid says in his RedByrd Transformation, the data lines for the computer simply did not exist in those early years. I guess that is in the computer's connector itself, not the harness. Cruise is very important to me.



Still gotta read more threads here on what others did. Still challenged on computer time.


The worst is not being able to get outta town into the woods to sleep. Loud traffic, other campers with generators parked on the street. Thought I found a quiet road, but it sees a lot of fast traffic that makes my bus rock as they go by. Plus the guy who kept driving by extra-fast and honking long and loud. Anti-homeless jerk, I guess. Found another quiet spot, but then some (tweeker) girl walked by my bus at 1:00AM and started yelling and cussing, woke me just as I was falling asleep. Nothing but another camper with a "will-tow if not moved" sticker there on a dead-end, so maybe she'll get "evicted." I doubt it. The gov. doesn't foot the bill, the tow is expensive, the space it takes up is large, the owner likely will walk away from the old beast-of-junk, and re-selling it would be a hassle. I keep moving, they don't get the chance to sticker my vehicle.
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Old 08-26-2021, 07:55 PM   #54
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PTS = Pupil Transport Service, I think the TCM shift programs were designed to be a little more aggressive at the lower end for stop N go service..
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Old 08-26-2021, 07:59 PM   #55
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PTS or PTO.


What's the difference anyway.


Thanks for opening my eyes on that one.
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:10 PM   #56
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Wierd, I thought the 2500 was the PTO model. I saw some others for sale that I passed on...I think one said it had the PTO gear.


The sub-models are confusing. I haven't seen info on them. What is different with the 2500 vs the 2000? I'm looking here and here and see no difference.
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Old 08-27-2021, 06:24 AM   #57
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look at the vocation guide.. note the 2100 series has a different gearset than the 2500.



often the vocations are different TCM programming, whether it gets a PTO gear or not, what TCM features are supported..



Allison TCMs are programmed with various "Packages" that include shift schedules, J1939 pararameters supported, fuel sense etc.
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Old 08-27-2021, 07:39 AM   #58
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Very likely you have a reman injection pump. IIRC there was a lawsuit because of their lack of reliability, not sure if it ever went to court or what happened with it.

This post here has the lift pump pictured with a big red arrow pointing at it.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/s...tml#post182259
You can see the starter in the same picture on the bottom of the screen. So it might be easier to view it from the bottom.

Dodge's fix was an in-tank pump. I don't recall bluebird ever doing that. No clue as to what the wires you traced are.
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Old 08-27-2021, 06:54 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
look at the vocation guide.. note the 2100 series has a different gearset than the 2500.



often the vocations are different TCM programming, whether it gets a PTO gear or not, what TCM features are supported..



Allison TCMs are programmed with various "Packages" that include shift schedules, J1939 pararameters supported, fuel sense etc.
2100 is different from the 2500, but what about the 2000? I expect the TCM programming to be a bit different, but the hardware?


Anyways....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Very likely you have a reman injection pump. IIRC there was a lawsuit because of their lack of reliability, not sure if it ever went to court or what happened with it.

This post here has the lift pump pictured with a big red arrow pointing at it.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/s...tml#post182259
You can see the starter in the same picture on the bottom of the screen. So it might be easier to view it from the bottom.

Dodge's fix was an in-tank pump. I don't recall bluebird ever doing that. No clue as to what the wires you traced are.
I found the lift pump on the block just above the ECU and under coolant lines. I was wondering if Bluebird didn't add in an in-tank pump also.


I didn't climb underneath again, but will soon. (How many wires go under there?) I took a pic of the wires and temp (I assume) sensor in the head. (see the pink zip-ties) They go across the alternator bracket, down to the frame, across the frame-channel to the back. I've been all through that channel replacing the tranny coolant lines, the A/C refrigerant lines, tracing the battery cables from the isolator. Only those two little wires in 2 sheaths. Everything else is thick. It looks like it had a 2-pole connector, but they bypassed one of the wires with another wire in another sheath. All of this taps right into the wiring, very poorly and unprofessionally done, that heads to the top of the fuel tank.


There is a slight fuel leak and the top of the tank is just barely moist - just enough to make dust stick, but not enough to run down the side. But it stinks, and it was bothering me last time I was parked in the woods (my e-window is right above, and I usually swing that wide open, and my bed/couch is right there). So I gotta look at that soon. Storage under the bed covering the access hatch is keeping it from getting done. If I could drive into the woods, and move some stuff outside while moving other stuff around inside, I would have at least assessed it. I'll look closer at the fuel pump issue then.


Thank you both for sharing your wisdom and experience. I got an hour to look for trannies before the library closes. See ya later!


Aloha!
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Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2021, 07:16 PM   #60
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
2000 is the series.. if you take the serial number from any given allison and go to "my allison" online it will tell you the exact model number.. within the 2000 series are the various models.. ultimately looking it up online will tell you what its complete model is (something good to do before buying it)



its like saying I have a Jeep Gladiator.. thats just the series...

I might have a gladiator rubicon

I might have a gladiator sport
each one has different characteristics..



-Christopher
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