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Old 01-07-2021, 02:56 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Year: 2005
Chassis: IC CE200
Engine: International VT365
Exclamation Troubleshooting - 2005 IC CE200 with "Check Elec System" light on

Hey everyone,

Having a bit of an issue at my newest location. It was a little rough driving in, not the best of terrain. Right as I pulled into the spot I was parking in my gas pedal went lame. It springs back up into position, but when I press it there's no resistance and no gas getting to the engine. Engine was still running fine. I didn't think to try and put it into any gears other than going from N to D and trying the pedal again with no luck. My first thought is that something has been shaken/knocked loose from the terrain.

It was dark and I decided to just setup camp and start looking again in the morning, since I'll be here for a while. I decided to see if it would crank today, and do some troubleshooting to see if any of the other gears would work. However, when I turn the key on and the panel goes through its motions, then I get the "Check Elec System" light. I try to turn the key to ignition, and all I hear is a loud click from the area that the fuse blocks are located (maybe between those and the dash somewhere).

I'm not a diesel mechanic, or even a regular mechanic, by any stretch. I've mostly worked on motorcycles and smaller 2-stroke engines, so I have some knowledge, but mostly just willingness to try things out. I'm fairly far away from mechanic shops, too, unfortunately. I have a motorcycle I can ride into town for parts, but as far as my abilities where the bus is right now they are limited to mostly hand tools.

In saying all that, does anyone have any suggestions for what to look at next? This is what I've done so far:
  • Reseated fuses related to ECM, IDM, or ESC (but I'm not sure I've found them all)
  • Visually inspected as many wires as I could trace under the hood and chassis for melting, corrosion, or being disconnected (again, probably haven't found them all yet)

The bus has been running and starting fine for weeks, it was only after the rough bouncing around that it suddenly failed like this. That's my thinking/hope is that something simply knocked loose, but I have no real idea where to start widdling down the cause. The error codes I get seem to indicate one central failure in the ESC; wherever that may be located I'm not sure.

Bus details:
  • 2005 International IC CE200
  • VT365 International Motor
  • Allison 2000 Transmission E004501

Error codes and relevant text:

Code:
4:240
639_ 14A
"Engine speed not communicated to the ESC"

241:254
639_ 14A
"Cruise control enable, active, state and vehicle speed not communicated to the ESC"

228:254
639_ 14A
"Wait to start lamp information not communicated to the ESC"

150:   1
2023_ 14P
"Loss of data link from ESC to primary EGC (150) or secondary EGC (250) Loss of communication in excess of 10 seconds"

150:   2
2023_ 14A
"Engine Controller not communicating with the primary EGC (150) or secondary EGC (250) Loss of communication in excess of 10 seconds"
Much appreciate any advice or tips!

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Old 01-07-2021, 03:17 PM   #2
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 2,594
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
None of those codes are from the Engine ecm, which are the codes you'll need to read if you want to diagnose an inoperative gas pedal. However, all of your codes deal with communication issues between the various modules on the bus, which is probably a good hint as to where your problems lie.

Good luck.

2005 is one of the first years IC tried multiplexing multiple control modules on school buses and they can be a bear to diagnose.

FYI- ESC is electronic stability controller, EGC is electronic gauge cluster. Those would both be on a data bus with the engine, so if neither is recieving engine info, your ecm might no be communicating or unplugged. Or your dash connector came unplugged, or the body connector came unplugged.

Was there any water present on your way in? I seem to remember these buses being notorious for water getting into the fuse/relay box because of crappy door panel design/sealing.
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Old 01-07-2021, 03:30 PM   #3
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Year: 2005
Chassis: IC CE200
Engine: International VT365
Thanks @Booyah45828. I'm slowly learning about various things on this year of bus, and there are a bunch of talks about the multiplexing I've run across. Hoping it's just a disconnect, but I'm having a hard time locating each of the proper modules. Know of a good service manual resource? I found one for the VT365 engine itself, but can't seem to find anything that basically tells me "The ESC is located here"



It was dry as a bone on my way in, and has been for a couple weeks for me. It's rained both light and hard before, but so far no issues that popped up after rain.
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:21 AM   #4
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 2,594
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
http://bodybuilder.navistar.com/General/Home.Htm

This might help, most of the stuff I have requires a subscription and password.

Check powers and grounds too, battery connections, frame straps, etc. Stray or low voltage can also wreck havoc on datalink communications and make an accurate diagnosis impossible.
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:11 PM   #5
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Year: 2005
Chassis: IC CE200
Engine: International VT365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
http://bodybuilder.navistar.com/General/Home.Htm

This might help, most of the stuff I have requires a subscription and password.

Check powers and grounds too, battery connections, frame straps, etc. Stray or low voltage can also wreck havoc on datalink communications and make an accurate diagnosis impossible.

Thanks for the link, might be something useful in there in general. I have an account with Navistar, but can't get anywhere because I don't pay or have all their fancy systems actually installed in the bus.


I decided to go on a blanket reseating journey this morning. Figured out where the ECM, IDM and EGR actually are, and reseated most of the relays and fuses except for some larger hard to get to ones. Then I started checking each fuse in the chassis fuse block, which is undocumented on the side panel diagram. Lo and behold there was a 5A fuse blown, but no idea what it goes to. Replaced it and voila! Engine cranks, no more fault codes, and the pedal gives gas. I got lucky on this one compared to some other stories I've been reading about with this kind of issue.


Now I'm wondering if there isn't a bare wire or something that might touch just the right way and short that fuse. I guess that's a journey for another day!
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