Which Would you Pick?

[Ghaniba]

I'm looking at one of a couple potential buses to buy - Which of these would you pick to take on highway trips, quite possibly hilly areas.

1998 DT466E w/ Spicer 5spd manual (unknown hp)
2008 DT466E w/ Alison 2000 series auto? (220hp)

Also curious, If this is a spicer 5 speed, what's the 2nd stick?


I'm still looking for my perfect bus... I'm well versed in driving a manual trans, just never in a bus...

Dave aka Ghan

[o1marc]

We would normally shy away from anything newer than an 03-04. After that they had issues with emission equipment on them that was problematic to diagnose and expensive to repair.
Is that Spicer actually a 10sp with a low and high range?

[Ghaniba]

It's possible. That's kinda why I'm asking. If the trans is a 5spd, then that may be a doubler?


As far as shying away from the 2008 -- I assume this being a DT466E it only has an EGR, not a DPF/DEF setup, and understood from previous readings, if you needed to go to that era, the DT466E would be about the best to deal with for it?


Dave aka Ghan

[PNW_Steve]

Stumbled across this on schoolbusfleet:

"has anyone come accross any egr delete kits for maxxforce dt's? we are considering this option due to having so many egr problems with both 2007 and 2010 models.this is just an option we are looking into, any info would be helpful"

There are a lot of other factors. Miles, rust, tires etc. If they were comparable otherwise I would go with the'98.

[Ghaniba]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

"has anyone come accross any egr delete kits for maxxforce dt's?
There are a lot of other factors. Miles, rust, tires etc. If they were comparable otherwise I would go with the'98.

Rust is about the same, very, very minimal. Mileage is within 40k of eachother, and this is -not- a maxxforce engine. It must be one of the very last of the DT466E before they started going to the maxxforce 7, etc. Tires all have 'tread' enough for a year.



The 2008 does have onspot chains, which I kinda dig. It also has air ride in the rear.


Dave aka Ghan

[brokedown]

I doubt you're going to find anyone recommending the newer bus over the older one.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by brokedown

I doubt you're going to find anyone recommending the newer bus over the older one.

He's hoping someone will.

[PNW_Steve]

Google "DT466e EGR cooler" and do a bit of reading.

That may temper the enthusiasm for the 2007.

[brokedown]

Originally Posted by o1marc

He's hoping someone will.

Maybe so. He certainly wouldn't be the first person to come on here, ask for advice, get a unanimous response backed with evidence, and make the opposite choice. Look at all the people asking about VT365 buses.

[Ghaniba]

Originally Posted by o1marc

He's hoping someone will.

Honestly, I do question how much of the hysteria over emissions is simply because of a school bus' general usage -- stop and go, slow speed. It must build up soot like crazy under those conditions. My use case will be almost all highway, which would be way better for the emissions system, burning off that carbon buildup. Do I think it will be a zero issue? Of course not, but I also don't think it'd be a huge deal breaker either. At some point, all of the old ones will have rotted away, and the choice will come down to the 'good old ones from the 2000s vs the bad ones from 2020'



In all honesty, I suppose I should have simply left the engines out -- The transmission is what concerns me in the ol' guy -- I'd hate to find out she tops out at 55mph or the syncros make it a nightmare to downshift on hills, etc.


Dave aka Ghan
P.S. - I'm also a glutton for punishment, I like Land Rovers...

[Sleddgracer]

"P.S. - I'm also a glutton for punishment, I like Land Rovers.."

that explains it - no more need be said - lol

[Ghaniba]

What I'd really love is someone to chime in and say -- "Yeah, I've got that same 5spd combo - it's great!" --- because the price on the 2008 is near to double, so I DO lean toward the ol' gal.


Dave aka Ghan

[brokedown]

I'm sure the transmission is great. Most of us would love to have a 5 speed in their bus. But the EGR problem isn't something that just affected school buses. I don't think anybody made a diesel engine between 2004 and ~2010 that didn't include a grenade with a loose pin.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by Ghaniba

Also curious, If this is a spicer 5 speed, what's the 2nd stick?
Attachment 31659

Looks to be parking brake. Hydraulic brakes on bus?

[Ghaniba]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Looks to be parking brake. Hydraulic brakes on bus?

Sure are. Parking break, huh? That'd make some sense!


Dave aka Ghan

[WARGEAR]

Aaayyy a fellow Landy Lover! The main reason people shy away from emissions era busses is the same reason people shy away from Land Rovers: when they break, they’re expensive if you’re not doing the work yourself and they break in a big way usually. I love my Disco 2 (it’s my second one after the first blew a head gasket, which if you google Disco2 Rover V8 you’d think I was insane to buy another) but if I wasn’t doing all the work myself I’d be living in the truck instead of a house. Diagnostic tools, services, and parts on newer busses tend to cost a lot more than the same motor pre-emissions equipment. The older bus would be my choice because:
1. A stick shift bus is COOL
2. Parts are cheaper and I can do the work myself
3. If it can cruise at 55-65 it’s all I’ll need
4. If it doesn’t have airbags that means one less thing to go wrong!

These are my main reasons, and the general consensus backed by facts and personal experience is that DT466E engines did not like being oversmogged. You’re better off with the older bus for peace of mind brother.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Just another side note - I have a Spicer 5 speed in my bus, and that's the way I want it. I'll *NEVER* have an automatic transmission failure in it. I also like having control of what gear it's in, instead of some little black box.

[o1marc]

I was just kidding get the 07, it'll have fewer miles on the drivetrain to worry about. Less wear and tear on the rest.

[Ghaniba]

I agree with all of this. I had a disco 2. It left me stranded more than any vehicle I've ever owned, and I've had some RATS. I now have a 2005 LR3, lifted, ARB lockers front and rear, it's my "woods beater" that looks better than most people's daily drivers -- It's got 62k miles on it now, and yes, I do almost all of my own work too -- The only way to own one out of warranty, I honestly believe.



I knew I wanted a DT466 engine. The VT364 maxxforce were clearly less reliable engines -- I know, I have it's cousin 6.0 in my F350! I don't mind fiddly electronics -- I'm a computer guy by trade, and my LR3 is an absolute horror show for electrical gremlins, at all times.


When I saw the manual trans in a dog nose, pre emissions DT466e, I thought, wow, perfect! I still didn't know enough about the 5speed in it though, but knew the 2004+ Alison trans were a HUGE step up from the previous automatic trans, which is what kept me going back n' forth.



If I buy a standard, I'm aware my wife will -never- drive it. This however, is probably best for the entire world around us.


Dave aka Ghan

Originally Posted by WARGEAR

Aaayyy a fellow Landy Lover! The main reason people shy away from emissions era busses is the same reason people shy away from Land Rovers: when they break, they’re expensive if you’re not doing the work yourself and they break in a big way usually. I love my Disco 2 (it’s my second one after the first blew a head gasket, which if you google Disco2 Rover V8 you’d think I was insane to buy another) but if I wasn’t doing all the work myself I’d be living in the truck instead of a house. Diagnostic tools, services, and parts on newer busses tend to cost a lot more than the same motor pre-emissions equipment. The older bus would be my choice because:
1. A stick shift bus is COOL
2. Parts are cheaper and I can do the work myself
3. If it can cruise at 55-65 it’s all I’ll need
4. If it doesn’t have airbags that means one less thing to go wrong!

These are my main reasons, and the general consensus backed by facts and personal experience is that DT466E engines did not like being oversmogged. You’re better off with the older bus for peace of mind brother.

[Ghaniba]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Just another side note - I have a Spicer 5 speed in my bus, and that's the way I want it. I'll *NEVER* have an automatic transmission failure in it. I also like having control of what gear it's in, instead of some little black box.

Agreed!!! So how is it to shift? Anything I need to know? Is it crazy different than a car for shifting? I've read things like - must start in 2nd gear, can't hold clutch in, some have to double clutch every movement, no syncros to reverse, bla bla bla -- What can you share of your experience of living with it? is 4th and 5th gear a very close ratio? -- Obviously, with a different engine AND a probably a different rear ratio, actual speeds won't be telling, but I'd like to know if you feel comfortable at 60-65mph?


Dave aka Ghan