Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-11-2020, 06:18 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
2002 E450 7.3l white smoke and power loss :´(

Hi every one,

Im Matt, new to the school bus and diesel world, going through complications, on my 2002 Ford E450 7.3l (Thomas Short Bus).

I bought the bus in december and drove it from San Diego to San Fransisco without having this issue at all. I’ve been parked since and have ran the engine about every week or two. Until i move it to and back from the shop to have front train fixed ..

The engine is starting & iddling fine but spits clouds of white smoke and loses power on acceleration, still after putting in new fuel filter.

After inspecting rear engine while running, oil ish black liquid runs down the intake from drivers side before and out of turbo into the exhaust line.

Would anyone be able to help out with any direction or thought ?

Is there a way i can be sure between head gasket fail and o-rings fail or i just have to pray for it to be the o rings if i start putting my hands in there ?

Smoke would be blue ish if the injector cups were involved, is that right ?

At worse, the smoke gets a little gray but is mostely white. Could fuel/oil mix do that ? Not sure also what a missfire sounds exactely like.

Thanks for any help


Matt

PS: Im also willing to learn how to use a decent OBD scanner if that can help learning anything (trying to figure out how to use it usefully).
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 06:40 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 339
Year: 1999
Coachwork: American Cargo 14'L x 7'8"W x 7'H Box
Chassis: Ford E350 Cutaway
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 11500 lbs
Could you please clarify this statement:

"After inspecting rear engine while running, oil ish black liquid runs down the intake from drivers side before and out of turbo into the exhaust line."

Pictures would help. Also, is this "oil ish" stuff motor oil or not?
__________________
E350 Box Van build
alpine44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 06:44 PM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,292
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
What does the oil look like? Check the inside of the oil cap. Does the white smoke dissipate after it warms up or does it get worse? If you cup your hands over the exhaust, do they get wet?
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 06:55 PM   #4
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 5
Year: 2003
Chassis: Fs65
Engine: Cat 3126
White smoke can be indicative of a head or head gasket issue. Remove the radiator cap when the engine is cold and start the engine, does the radiator pressurize a quick check is to hold your hand over the radiator filler port. Again do this while the engine is cold! If your hand blows off you have a potential issue with a head gasket or head. I am somewhat out of order with this. Does your oil look like a milkshake? That would be indicative of a bad head hasket or head.
Karin70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 06:59 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Thank you for being so reactive.

My phonedata is very limited but i did take this picture yesterday, if i can send it ..

The oil on the intake did not smell like fuel, just black and greasy.

The oil cap does look dirty, i did not clean it when i changed oil. Did notice a slight amount of white smoke coming out of oil fill when i turned the engine off. Also, i do not notice any difference after the engine warmed up
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 07:02 PM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Picture from rear engine

Is this speaking at all ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B79790A4-2ED6-4C3A-8D7B-D4D6BFCD1D8E.jpg (272.8 KB, 26 views)
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 07:19 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Thanks for the radiator pressure test.

Will tell you more after testing and looking at the oil.
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 07:58 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 339
Year: 1999
Coachwork: American Cargo 14'L x 7'8"W x 7'H Box
Chassis: Ford E350 Cutaway
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 11500 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by M@tt View Post
Is this speaking at all ?
Thanks, that helped a lot. Now, I understand your wording.

This looks like either a head gasket or injector cup leak on the left (driver side) cylinder head.
__________________
E350 Box Van build
alpine44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 09:28 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
So after a few test,

Engine still starts fine. Wouldnt suspect any issue until hitting the gas pedal a little too hard.

Just two codes 0675 & 0683 conserning glow plug #5 and its connector, which i am still exluding from being a close cause of my main problem, unless someone says differently.

Then,
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 09:37 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
What does the oil look like? Check the inside of the oil cap. Does the white smoke dissipate after it warms up or does it get worse? If you cup your hands over the exhaust, do they get wet?
Oil frankly looks like it picked up some engine filth from when i changed oil after buying the bus, not knowing when it was past done. Could of been a long time ..

Otherwise it doesnt look milky.

So it doesnt really smoke until i hit the gas pedal to hard. Then, BBOOOOOOOOFFF (a thick white cloud) and a weird noise coming from the turbo (like choking it i guess), that greasy liquid coming down the drivers side intake, with a bit of smoke too (only when the BOOOOOFF thing happens)

And if i go put my hand behind the exhaust, its relatively dry dry (cant really tell when i push the gas, but there is no sign there)

Thank you
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 09:41 PM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karin70 View Post
Remove the radiator cap when the engine is cold and start the engine, does the radiator pressurize a quick check is to hold your hand over the radiator filler port. Again do this while the engine is cold! If your hand blows off you have a potential issue with a head gasket or head.
Did the test, no pressure that i can feel in the radiator while the engine is running cold.

Thanks a lot !
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 09:49 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine44 View Post
Thanks, that helped a lot. Now, I understand your wording.

This looks like either a head gasket or injector cup leak on the left (driver side) cylinder head.
Thank you !

If the injector cup was letting coolant pass through the combustion chamber, would the smoke not be of a funky color (assuming there is funky colored coolant in there :/)?

For the smoke, am i right to think it definitely means something is burning with my gas in the combustion chamber that shouldn't ?

Can i all ready exclude injector o rings ??

Gas and oil mixture ?

I really want to thank you all for sharing your time and thoughts and very interesting question to help me out.

Thank you all for the highly appreciated guidance
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 10:53 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
I borrowed a 300$ OBD scanner if someone knows how to guide me through that path (what needs to be scanned, eventually how if possible)

May be there is a post i skipped on about that ?
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2020, 04:44 AM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,710
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M@tt View Post
I borrowed a 300$ OBD scanner if someone knows how to guide me through that path (what needs to be scanned, eventually how if possible)

May be there is a post i skipped on about that ?
There is either a 6-pin or a 9-pin diagnistic port either under the dash or in the engine compartment (maybe both) where you would plug in a scanner. However, buses are NOT OBD ... they are J1939. So, being able to use it on your bus depends on what scanner you have and what protocols it talks.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2020, 10:40 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
All right, thanks !

I did manage a few codes but also realized the scanner doesnt does read the full buses protocol, so i’ve just be double checking what sensor was where.

Found ICP sensor, unpluged it, not my issue here apparently. Found Intake Air Temp valve, Intake Pressure Valve, Exhaust Pressure Valve. But for some reason, i cant find MAP or MAT sensor ..

I almost forgot mentioning ! The waste gate of my turbo is leaking oil at the connection with the exhaust. Could a wasted WG start having oil leaking into my pipes when i hit the gas hard enough that things only get weird when the turbo is solicited ??
The pedestal isnt leaking but somewhere in the waste gate is leaking dirty engine oil that finds its way out.

Thank you all for helping out
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2020, 12:16 AM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,710
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Well, I have only a beginning knowledge of the workings of a turbo. However, I do know that they are lubricated by the engine oil. When it puffs the white smoke, does it make any particular noise?
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2020, 12:31 AM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Yes, comming from there !! I just dont know how to properly describe the sound !
It looks like the turbine part was changed but the waste gate looks original from 2002. I am more and more convinced of a dead bearing in there ..
Is the only way to know to get in there ? Take the turbo out, look at it, and may be take it appart, if not just changing it ??

Sorry if i ask so many questions all over the place.
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2020, 12:35 AM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 30
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas (ShortBus)
Chassis: E450
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 15 person
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Well, (...) , does it make any particular noise?
I want to say choking or coughing, its a really strange sound.
M@tt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2020, 02:05 AM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,710
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M@tt View Post
I want to say choking or coughing, its a really strange sound.

The wastegate is basically a pressure relief valve. When the pressure out of the turbo reaches the wastegate pressure, the wastegate opens to relieve the pressure to that things do not go wrong in the engine. If the wastegate sticks closed, it could cause problems with the engine which might be dangerous. If it sticks open, the turbo never builds up the intake pressure like it should and the engine behaves like it was a naturally aspirated engine ... pood power and poor mileage. If the wastegate flaps open and closed I could see it making the engine sound like it was coughing. However, I have very limited knowledge of turbo design, but I am learning. You may need to get booyah45828 involved for a full understanding.


As he points out in this thread, a turbo can be rebuilt, but care must be taken because it is a balances device that spins at up to 100,000 RPM!
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2020, 04:04 AM   #20
Bus Nut
 
CHEESE_WAGON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 818
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
I hate to say it, but that all sounds suspiciously like EGR cooler leak, quite common on PowerStroke diesels. I can't say for sure whether an '02 would have this, but white smoke certainly sounds like a head gasket or EGR cooler leak. That being said, these issues are far more common on the 6.0L than the 7.3L to my understanding, and I'm pretty sure an '02 was still the 7.3L, which I'm not sure had an EGR cooler.

Side note here, I've seen a video of an extremely dirty trick used to pawn off a problem Power Stroke -- the recovery tank was cleaned thoroughly, the overflow hose was plugged with RTV sealant, and then hose and tank were reinstalled with a fresh tank fill of good antifreeze. Eventually the coolant in the radiator turned to a strange black ooze, far too late to save the engine, leaving the owner with no recourse as well.

Just my $0.02. Here's hoping you haven't found yourself with a problem child...
__________________
"Cheese Wagon" <anomaly.va@gmail.com>

Former owner - 1989 Ford B700 64-pass Blue Bird (Rest In Peace, Cheese Wagon)
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×