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Old 09-23-2020, 04:32 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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6.0L OHV Diesel V8 DI/5 Speed Auto 5R110W - HI/Torque

Hello,

I'm looking to bid on a Ford Thomas bus. I reached out to Ford with the VIN numbers and was told the engine is 6.0L OHV Diesel V8 DI and the transmission is 5 Speed Auto 5R110W - HI/Torque. This doesn't look anything like the engines and transmissions I've seen discussed here, and I haven't been able to figure out how to correlate this to the discussions here on this forum. Any opinions on this combo?

Thank you
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:39 PM   #2
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That's the 6.0 Powerstroke that was also sold in the Super Duty pickups from '03 to '07.

It's a mixed bag of a motor. I wouldn't want one in a shorty, they're a pita to work on. We had a couple mini buses with the same engine and nothing but problems with them.
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Old 09-23-2020, 05:07 PM   #3
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The 6.0L Powerstroke has been aptly nicknamed the Power-Joke for very good reason. I would strongly advise against anything with a 6.0L Powerstroke. Google '6.0L Powerstroke issues' and you will see thousands of reasons to avoid that engine.
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Old 09-23-2020, 05:29 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. The price is under $1000 (it's a bankruptcy auction), and the mileage is under 150k, so I'm really tempted!
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Old 09-23-2020, 05:34 PM   #5
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Unless the engine is freshly rebuilt and "bulletproofed", don't be tempted and keep on looking.

If you dig deep enough there are discussions on this site that will enlighten you, regarding this problematic engine...
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alh4nyc View Post
Hello,

I'm looking to bid on a Ford Thomas bus. I reached out to Ford with the VIN numbers and was told the engine is 6.0L OHV Diesel V8 DI and the transmission is 5 Speed Auto 5R110W - HI/Torque. This doesn't look anything like the engines and transmissions I've seen discussed here, and I haven't been able to figure out how to correlate this to the discussions here on this forum. Any opinions on this combo?

Thank you
Hard pass. That 6.0h-no Navistar diesel engine is a POS of the highest order. Ford has been sued for it, and they are suing Navistar (the supplier) from what I hear. It is also known as the VT365 in Navistar vehicles. Just say no.
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:45 PM   #7
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Do you think though, that after 10 years of being in service, that any problems this engine would have would have already come up and been repaired?
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:03 PM   #8
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Do you think though, that after 10 years of being in service, that any problems this engine would have would have already come up and been repaired?
If this tells you anything, Ford has bought back the vast majority of those they sold. They stopped using Navistar's VT365 and replaced it with a 6.4L diesel of their own design, not related to the 6.0 in any way.

There are people out there who claim to have 'bulletproofed' this engine, but I wouldn't trust it. Far better options out there.

Personally, I wouldn't touch most diesels after about 2004,and none after 2007. 2004-2007s aren't terrible, but 2007 and later I wouldn't touch with a 40-foot pole. Engine quality and reliability have become terrible as emissions controls have gotten more complex.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Do you think though, that after 10 years of being in service, that any problems this engine would have would have already come up and been repaired?
That's the kicker about the 6.0L. The more time it has on it, the more problems it can and will have. My dad had a '04 F250 Harley Davidson edition. When he started having problems with it, he took it to the Ford dealer to trade in on something newer. They would NOT take one of their own 6.0L trucks in on trade. Told him they didn't want that piece of junk on their lot. They would never be able to sell it! When Ford shies away from their own, you definitely should too!
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:02 PM   #10
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
If this tells you anything, Ford has bought back the vast majority of those they sold. They stopped using Navistar's VT365 and replaced it with a 6.4L diesel of their own design, not related to the 6.0 in any way.

There are people out there who claim to have 'bulletproofed' this engine, but I wouldn't trust it. Far better options out there.

Personally, I wouldn't touch most diesels after about 2004,and none after 2007. 2004-2007s aren't terrible, but 2007 and later I wouldn't touch with a 40-foot pole. Engine quality and reliability have become terrible as emissions controls have gotten more complex.



the 6.4 was also a navistar engine and was the **REAL** joke.. to be replaced by the 6.7 which is of their own design.. there were no fixes till much laster for those.. (ford guys started putting later model maxxforce 7 pistons in them to keep from breaking them).. but for the first 2 years there were no fixes.. ford only used it for 3 model years..



the 6.0 had some issues when it was souped up especially.. however the head gasket issues werent apparent in the stock motors..



Oil cooler and EGR cooler are 2 real issues these engines had.. any lack of maintenance on the oil or coolant spelled doom for one of those 2 parts..



aftermarket pieces are much better.. changing out the oil cooler involves removing the intake manifold, fuel bowl, HPOP, and some other goodies.. on a school bus its not a bad job (to me who tears crap apart alot).. in a Van Chassis its a real devil to do...
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:12 PM   #12
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the 6.4 was also a navistar engine and was the **REAL** joke.. to be replaced by the 6.7 which is of their own design.. there were no fixes till much laster for those.. (ford guys started putting later model maxxforce 7 pistons in them to keep from breaking them).. but for the first 2 years there were no fixes.. ford only used it for 3 model years..
Interesting. Thanks for the correction. I knew the 6.7 replaced the 6.4 but I thought it was an improvement on the 6.4 itself.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:16 PM   #13
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I'd go ahead and buy it, what a great deal because of all the frady-cats. Plenty of them out there roaming the country. Now for a long-term vehicle you will invest 20,000 into a motorhome, look elsewhere, like not a school bus at all, such as a shuttle bus with a gasoline v10. And btw, you can also swap motors too.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:50 PM   #14
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It seems to me 80-90% of people say run, don't walk! The balance say it can be a great engine with proper maintenance.

It's a shame because the bus seems to be in reasonably good condition - not much rust, especially being in the northeast.

What's puzzling to me is there are at least 50 buses in the auction listing of these Ford Thomas buses from 2002 - 2010. Why would someone continue to buy buses that have problem engines? Then again, all the buses later than 2010 are Starcraft, so maybe they did have a lot of problems and switched models.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:52 PM   #15
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Swapping motors, you may as well buy another bus, because when you have computer-controlled engine management and emission control, you have to swap the entire engine, transmission, PCM, emission system and all.

That being said, 02-03+ Fords, you are better off with a gas engine. Ford has always been known for interchangeability problems from one year model to another, sometimes even within the same year.

Buses are typically fleet purchased a few at a time on contract, and problems usually don't show up for a few years. Hence, the available batch.

Most of the time, the only way to avoid seeing the signs of EGR cooler failure with these engines is for plug the coolant recovery overflow tube, but that just stops the recovery tank giving it away, it does not mean it's not happening. Ostrich sticking their head in the sand logic.

Seriously, if you're looking for a Ford shorty in that year range, find a gasser, and save yourself a lot of grief. You can thank me later.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alh4nyc View Post
It seems to me 80-90% of people say run, don't walk! The balance say it can be a great engine with proper maintenance.
Keep checking those percentages and you will find in that of the 80-90% of the people saying run, 80-90% of those have first hand experience wishing they had RUN! The 10% saying "I'd go ahead and buy it" have never had one and experienced the multiple thousand dollar trips to the dealer trying to get it fixed. I don't have nearly as many trip miles as CheeseWagon, but I'm easily over 200K in my years driving and I'd be willing to bet Ford Powerstroke account for 75% of the RV tow rig break downs I have seen sitting on the side of the road. To include the 3 times I had to rescue my dad and his 5th wheel. After he ditched the Powerstroke for a Duramax, I didn't have to mount a single rescue.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Unless the engine is freshly rebuilt and "bulletproofed", don't be tempted and keep on looking.
Or you're a mechanic, and can do the work yourself.

There isn't much out there anymore that runs and drives for 1000 bucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alh4nyc View Post
What's puzzling to me is there are at least 50 buses in the auction listing of these Ford Thomas buses from 2002 - 2010. Why would someone continue to buy buses that have problem engines? Then again, all the buses later than 2010 are Starcraft, so maybe they did have a lot of problems and switched models.
Commonality of parts would be the big push by the bean counters. Very few districts ask the mechanics what they thought of a new bus. It was always the superintendent, treasurer, and the driver that was going to be getting it to bring it back.
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:38 AM   #18
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im in the camp of I wont pass up a 6.0... maybe in a van just because pulling he manifold in a van is a PITA.. but I wouldnbt hesitate to buy a VT365 school bus..



and the more i learn about the Maxxforce 7 I might buy one of the later years of it and fix it up if I could get one really cheap.. but bnot totally there yet on the MF7 (6.4)...


again alot of this depends on peop[les mechanical skill... we have all types comes to this site .. some who have never tiurned a wrench, others who are / were master engine builders and everything in between (where i am)
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:22 AM   #19
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I had a 6.0 in an F-250. Started having problems just after 3,000 miles. Fuel injectors, high pressure oil pump and something else. After 18,000 miles, I sued Ford and won about $6,500.
Traded it in for another 250 with a 6.4. Did not have any problems with it until just recently. At 195,000, had to replace the oil cooler, $2,400. I like the 6.4, great power. From experience, sray away from the 6.0.
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Old 10-03-2020, 11:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Or you're a mechanic, and can do the work yourself.

There isn't much out there anymore that runs and drives for 1000 bucks.

The question is, how much *longer* will it run? There has been more than one forum member who bought a 6.0 / VT365 equipped bus, had major engine failure on the trip home and towed to a shop (dealer, usually) only to find out the engine is a complete loss and replacement is $25,000 or so (un-rebuildable).
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