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Old 08-02-2020, 09:12 PM   #1
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7.3 powerstroke cranks but no start

Evening folks,
I have trouble with our E350 power stroke van.. No start.
Have this van for 15 years and installed a tachometer about 5 years ago.
Last trip was running fine, turned it of and would not start again.. waited 4 hours and fired up without a hitch. Then drove fine.

Started first turn last week, today zero, cranks strong. tacho shows 200 RPM.


with ignition key.

CEL lights up for 1/4 second and then goes out
WTS comes on and goes out together with clicking of GPR
Batteries fully charged.
Mechanical pressure gauge shows 70psi fuel pressure at schrader valve
Torque pro shows
HPOP 2300 psi while starting.

No stored ecu codes

Replaced IDM, no difference.
Probed CID signal , shows high low when cranking.
IDM return signal about 3 volt DC and 6 VAC with fluke DVM

With Car gauge pro I ran a KOER test
passed
Ran buzz test.
All injectors buzz.
Measured injector harness
All ohm out to 3 OHM on IDM connector with IDM removed


I did not measure FCDS but I would think that circuit should be good with going thru a buzz test?

No white smoke or unburnt diesel smell

What am I missing, suggestion please

Johan
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:06 AM   #2
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Is the ECM powering up? Occasionally my ECM decides it doesn't want to turn on. It will crank and cranks but never start.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:29 PM   #3
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hi e450,


I have read that if the WTS light comes on for the time it needs to glow that the PCM =(ECU) is running.


This morning it fired without a hitch. have been testing all day with auto enginuity software and scanner. No clue why . only code I got was



P0603 internal control module keep alive memory (KAM) error
P1280 Injector Control pressure sensor circuit low




Took the connector of the ICP sensor and the pressure went to 725 psi.. That is what it should be.. with the connector on it is 500 psi. also good. Couple of resets later it was gone.
The P0603 remains. Trying now to find that wire into the PCM and see if there is a wire problem.


frustrating,, a whole day and it works but I do not know why
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Old 08-03-2020, 05:29 PM   #4
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I'm thinking that the KAM error might be suggesting the PCM is losing power for an extended time. Maybe as simple as a loose battery cable.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:03 PM   #5
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Hi Roach, yes that is what it is supposed to be, only batteries are tight and always on charge with solar panels..
the other thing is I can delete the KAM error.. Stop the engine, start it again and it is back...
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Hi Roach, yes that is what it is supposed to be, only batteries are tight and always on charge with solar panels..
the other thing is I can delete the KAM error.. Stop the engine, start it again and it is back...
sounds to me like the memory chip in the ECM is bad.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:12 PM   #7
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FWIW, I had a "circuit low" code for my fuel pump that kept turning on and off. Even the Cummins dealer and the bus dealer that originally sold the bus to the school system I bought it from didn't know what it meant.


It looks like I have a rebuilt injector module, so I thought it was just a crappy rebuild or something.


In working on my bus, I had to disconnect the in-tank fuel pump at its connector, as well as an "overheat" circuit that was shottily installed by hand that cuts the main power feed wire, runs it up to the motor head and through a thermal switch, and back to the factory connector. I put it all back together, and never had a code since.


So I would guess that "circuit low" means a poor or corroded connection.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:34 PM   #8
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I will open up the PCM and see if the KAM memory voltage actually arrives on the board.. If so yes or no then that becomes easy..


I doubt if the KAM error causes no start condition....

If that was caused by a faulty ICP then a whole new can of worms opens up. Faulty ICP or damaged wiring. Maybe I need to splice into the wiring just before the PCM so that I can check the most important sensor voltages at the pcm and also check the most important out put signals to the IPR and IDM.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:14 PM   #9
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If you want to read these sensor values, be sure to use a meter that is designed to work with a running automotive ECU. They have xtra-high resistance internally, so as not to alter the value the computer is reading. My little old Craftsman and my new Klein (from HD - thanks Doktari!) meters are NOT made for that. They would say "safe for automotive use" or something similar. My old boss from 15 years ago was a stickler for that. They are fine for checking other automotive electrical systems, just not sensors.


Good luck to YOU! (and me)
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:17 PM   #10
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And do your darndest to backprobe the connector at the ECM or sensor before you start hacking into the harness! You probably know that, and maybe about the type of meter, but for others who read this and are learning...
Aloha!
Edit: use a sewing needle to backprobe if nessesary
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:37 AM   #11
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a faulty ICP circuit or sensor is "solved" by unplugging it and the engine should always start.. of course that assumes the computer sees an "open" on one or the other leads which is where the 725 default value comes from.



ive seen a no start where a CPS still provided enough signal to generate a Tach reading but not consistent or clean enough to let the computer fire the injectors.. it needs to see the reference point in the signal so it knows the real position of the cam.. if that reference pulse doesnt match up with where it thinks it should be then it wont fire the injectors ..


you'll see a 0 injector pulse width on the scanner (I dont know on the 3 box if you can see the actual pulse width. the IH shows it )
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:07 PM   #12
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Hi Chris,


Yeah I don't know. The CPS feeds the PCM.. the PCM makes the tach signal..This is all digital, so it would be bizarre that the PCM would send the signal to the tach and not be able to use the signal for the IDM.. a discrepancy something I would think a self respecting software / hardware developer at ford would have set of the CEL light.
In my case i built a IDM breakout box with LED for the FCDS signal , Feedback signal and CID signal . If those signal are there and there is more then 500 psi according the IPS then is there anything else electronic that prevents this thing from starting?


Johan
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:16 PM   #13
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Engine: 7.3 powerstroke & MBE906
Power stroke idm injector breakout box

Breakout box with injector switches.
I used the connector from a broken idm box and it counterpart that I cut out of a F series diesel truck..the box I had left over from the time my company made ultrasonic pre amplifiers.. The switches came out of junk equipment.

Johan
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Old 08-08-2020, 09:34 PM   #14
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Crankshaft Position Sensor. Ever replaced it? What year? 611,000 on my 7.3 I can tell you about everything that will ever fail and kinda when...
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