Rear axle swap. Ford 4 window shorty

[cadillackid]

see I have the 3.54 and am looking for the 4.10.. my red bus is over-geared.. at 65 in 6th im running about 1600 RPM which is just too low for a V-8 Diesel.. she likes that 1700-1900 range.. and then there is 5th if I need to run it up a couple hundred more.. and of course 4th if im climbing mountains..



mine doesnt have the tone ring though.. my ABS has 4 separate wheel spin sensors.. I know I was told when I was looking for the fancy Hubcaps or ALCOA wheels that I am lucky because it uses the same hub pilot 8 bolt lug pattern as an F450 from say 99-03 (there are all kinds of wheels available) so I ordered hubcaps for an F450 and sure enough fit right on..



supposedly the carrier break is 4.10. so my ring and pinion would in theory fit a carrier / housing for a tone-ringed housing that has a 3.73 or 4.10 in it..



unless the tone ring is part of the pinion gear itself? or does the tone ting slide on the pinion?..


ive also wondered how many pulses per rev that tone ring is? if you diode isolate the tone ring signal from the allison output shaft could it suffice as an ABS signal?



-Christopher

[CharlesM99]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

The speed sensor in the differential is crucial to trans operation. Look up part numbers for VSS and ABS sensors on your chassis model and compare to those for any potential donors. I have to warn you, Ford's interchangeability is a nightmare more often than not. But there may be a similar bus in a yard somewhere that matches, I just have to wonder if there were other factory options used or if incomplete chassis were all the same.

You could check to see if any drum-to-disc conversion kits exist for your factory axle. Plenty out there for popular performance vehicle rears, it's possible something could be sourced through a 4x4 or off roading site.

If you can get one, that and regearing would be probably be best because you don't have to remember what your axle came from if and when other parts fail. Also gives you an excuse to freshen the entire assembly, bearings and all.

Yeah, it's sounding like that might be the way to go. I'll keep looking into it for now though.

So if it's going to work, I need to make sure these all align:
-Vss sensor in the axle and matching part #s
-ABS sensor matches
-u joint connection matches
-spring perches match or reweld them

Originally Posted by BeNimble

I have the rear end with disk brakes in my 1999 E450 shuttle.
Now that its a trailer, don't really need it, could replace it with something else, not sure what the gear ratio is, but if you are not in the norcal area, shipping it is not going to happen. But next time I am under it, i will see if I can find the tag with the ratio. It had a v10, so would likely rev higher at speed than a diesel.

Thanks for that offer. Ill likely be around that area in the next 3-4 months, so maybe!

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

i had to go find this thread again.
they PMed me. having vin number issues to verify what they have.
VIN sent is 1fdje37mrhbo9854.? missing one character?

Thanks. I PMd you back

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by CharlesM99

So if it's going to work, I need to make sure these all align:
-Vss sensor in the axle and matching part #s
-ABS sensor matches
-u joint connection matches
-spring perches match or reweld them

Pretty much, if you want things to work like they're supposed to without modification...

[DWJoyce]

Originally Posted by CharlesM99

Hiya,

I'm thinking about swapping out the whole rear axle to get getter highway gearing. Current it's 4.10 gearing so there's room for improvement!

I'm wondering if anyone knows if I can get the whole rear end from a Ford truck or van and just swap it in? Or are the mounts going to be different in the bus?

Any insight is much appreciated!

Thanks

Save yourself a lot of grief and just change the gear ratio. Replacing drum brakes with disks is a common waste of effort. The rear brakes are only responsible for about 25% of braking and drum brakes are far superior to disks as parking (emergency) brakes. Also, 4.10 gears will keep your gas engine in it's power range. Driving a school bus over 65 is just not a good idea if you're trying to remain safe. Why does everyone need to drive so fast anyway?

[CharlesM99]

Originally Posted by DWJoyce

Save yourself a lot of grief and just change the gear ratio. Replacing drum brakes with disks is a common waste of effort. The rear brakes are only responsible for about 25% of braking and drum brakes are far superior to disks as parking (emergency) brakes. Also, 4.10 gears will keep your gas engine in it's power range. Driving a school bus over 65 is just not a good idea if you're trying to remain safe. Why does everyone need to drive so fast anyway?

I have a diesel engine, and I'm not driving faster than 65 mph.



The disc brake upgrade would be a nice bonus if I managed to find the right axle.

I'm going to keep searching to see if I can find a complete axle that will work for me. Seems like much simpler work than replacing the gears.


So the main considerations we've discovered so far are:
-Vss sensor in the axle.
This seems simple enough to verify by matching part #'s from the donor vehicle to mine.

-ABS sensor matches
Again I can match the part #'s to confirm.
-spring perches match

I can measure this or have ones welded on. Not terribly concerned with this one.


-u joint connection matches
This is the one I'm concerned about.


Does anyone know how I can verify if my yoke will match up with one from a donor vehicle?


Thanks folks!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

If it helps, I'm thinking most Ford RWD car and light truck are the same on the pinion coupling to driveshaft. However, this is a commercial application, so this would be a question for a dealer parts department, or perhaps a driveline / driveshaft specialist.

[CharlesM99]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

If it helps, I'm thinking most Ford RWD car and light truck are the same on the pinion coupling to driveshaft. However, this is a commercial application, so this would be a question for a dealer parts department, or perhaps a driveline / driveshaft specialist.

That does help. My bus is pretty small so I'd say good chance that its a typical e350 rear end.
Can never say for sure.


I should go pull it out and take some pics & measurements to make sure it matches when I look at a donor vehicle.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

ok as verified buy my son (ford mechanic) and the dealership parts shop verified it today.
transmission is E40D
rearend
if single wheel it is a sterling 10.5
if dual wheel it is a DANA 80.
both still have parts widely available.
both are still used so finding one in a junk yard should not be an issue.
might take some cleaning but try to find the tag on yours and go from there.

[CharlesM99]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

ok as verified buy my son (ford mechanic) and the dealership parts shop verified it today.
transmission is E40D
rearend
if single wheel it is a sterling 10.5
if dual wheel it is a DANA 80.
both still have parts widely available.
both are still used so finding one in a junk yard should not be an issue.
might take some cleaning but try to find the tag on yours and go from there.

Mine is a single rear wheel, but the axle cover says Dana on it?

I searched around quite a bit, but I couldn't find an axle tag.


I appreciate you looking into this for me!

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

look up dana rear end ID it usually comes up with pictures of the rear cover plate and you ID it by comparing shape and the number of bolts and or pattern.
good luck

[CharlesM99]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

look up dana rear end ID it usually comes up with pictures of the rear cover plate and you ID it by comparing shape and the number of bolts and or pattern.
good luck

Good idea, thank you!

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

probably a DANA 70 and you can compare the 60 70 and dana 80 by hub diameter.
i know that info is on the WWW. because i helped someone else out with it a few years ago when they were having trouble finding bearings and hubs for there truck.
good luck