wheels for dayton 9.00 20 to 10 22.5 tire swap

[Engineman]

Hello all. This is my first post on here and I hope I'm putting it in the right place. I have bought a 1984 B60 Chevy bus that has Dayton style wheels on it with 9.00 20's and want to swap to 10 r22.5 tires since the 20's are "unobtainum" anymore. Does anyone know where I can get wheels that will fit my spokes for this? I'm sure some of you guys have done this, any advice would be truly appreciated!

[BeNimble]

I have a 1972 GMC 5500 (chevy c50) and looked for ways to solve this problem, and basically there aren't any, there was some options years ago not valid anymore. You can still buy these 20in tires, but like only 1 brand and size available from what I found, and nobody will mount them.
Basically you need to replace the axles is the most cost effective solution.

[Ronnie]

Southwest wheel has the Tubeless rims for 22.5 that fit the Dayton wheels. Most any truck tire shop should either have them or be able to get them. I traded my split rim 20" for the 22.5 tubeless rims to a fellow who wanted them for an antique truck.

[cadillackid]

my bus originally came with 9R20 rims / tires on it and the school converted it to 22.5's. from what I was told the dayton spoke i nthe center on the school buisses is pretty standard.. I see dayton spoke 22.5 school busses in the junkyards all the time.. seems it would be pretty easy to get a set of used rims (and tires)..

[cadillackid]

as for 20 inch tires they are readily available.. I had a couple put on my Superior 2 years ago.. my rims are the retainer ring type on the front. i put 9R20 on which is a radial instead of a bias ply.. I know the bias ply is harder to get. those rims on your 84 should be the retainer ring 2 piece type and not the widow maker 3 piece.



I plan to convert the fronts on that bus over to 22.5's here soon and will have those almost new 9R20 tires / flaps / tubes available..



that bus has stud pilot disc rims so a little harder to find cheap used rims.

[Booyah45828]

What the issue is with the 9.00-20 tires is that they use multi-piece rims, which are dangerous to mount and dismount tires on. Especially if they're old and rusty. That's why 99% of shops won't handle them and why replacement tires are nearly unobtainable.

You can upgrade your tire/rim combo to a 22.5" single piece rim very easily. You can still get new dayton rims in the 22.5" size for about 150 a piece, or you can find set of used ones occasionally too.

Replacing a 9.00-20, you'll want a 7.5x22.5 rim and 10r22.5 tires. That will be about identical size wise to what you have, so you won't have to change your speedometer. You can inquire about 8.25x22.5 rims and 11r22.5 tires, which will be easier to find, but might not fit and will throw the speedo off. So check before purchasing.

Better yet, I presume you're going to be taking this to a tire place to have the new tires put on? If so, they should have the know how to find you the rims you need. Just let them source it all and you should have no problems.

I did this upgrade the year I bought my bus, which was about 8 years ago. That's because even back then the 20" tires were near unobtanium, and weren't a name brand manufacturer. Luckily, I found a guy on craigslist about an hour from me that was scrapping a dump truck. So I bought the tires and rims off him and put them on my bus for cheap.

Originally Posted by BeNimble

Basically you need to replace the axles is the most cost effective solution.

That's not entirely true.

It's an option, but unless your used axle has newish tires on it, you'll be buying tires anyways. You also better be getting a heck of a deal on that axle, because new rims are about 150-200 a piece, or around 1000 for the set. And that's new, used can be had for way cheaper. Some axles are also able to be upgraded from dayton hubs to budd style hubs too. So an axle swap isn't necessary. An old parts guy with the right catalogs can tell you if that's an available option, a lot of axles could be had with either hub setup.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

I have a 1972 GMC 5500 (chevy c50) and looked for ways to solve this problem, and basically there aren't any, there was some options years ago not valid anymore. You can still buy these 20in tires, but like only 1 brand and size available from what I found, and nobody will mount them.
Basically you need to replace the axles is the most cost effective solution.

I expect you ran into trouble because most chevy's use a budd style wheel instead of the Dayton wheels. The Chevy bolt pattern in 22.5 is probably hard to come by, where as the Dayton 22.5 is common.


My Dad had Chevy C60s back in the day, I have always had International.

[cadillackid]

There are most definitely some Chevy hubs that are hard to find wheels for esp the ones that ran 6 or 8 bolt. Couple friends on the vintage bus restoration had trouble finding 22.5s. My superior is budd vs hub pilot and it’s harder to find wheels for but still plenty available as the IH was well supported.. likely due to using standard Dana / Rockwell / spicer axles

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

ALCOA has a full catalog where you can find what you want brand new as stated about 150$ a piece and a full support team that you can call and talk to and they will help you find the correct one.
the only question that is stopping from ordering new ones and part of it is time to address it is the offset in my current rims and spacer thickness in my duals. i dont think its an issue but i wanted to verify before order.

[Engineman]

Hey Thank's guys for all the replies! I think I'm going to do what Ronnie and most of you are telling me and try and find some 7.5x22.5 donuts. I was unaware they would fit my 20" Dayton hubs...but that's great! now on the hunt for some used ones lol. Tire shops around here wont touch Dayton wheels their all scared of them. I can mount them and mount the tires as well...I just don't want to lol. I own an automotive machine shop but big truck stuff is not my forte lol. Again thanks for all the input, it's really helpful!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

Basically you need to replace the axles is the most cost effective solution.

I was pretty much going to say the same thing due to the fact that I don't think the 22.5 rings are going to fit the 20.5 hub / spokes. Not sure the actual spoke hubs can be changed to the larger size that easily without changing the axles. I honestly would swap for air-brake Budd-wheel axles before I would mess with all that, especially just to wind up with a larger Widowmaker setup that hardly any shop will touch for tire service.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I was pretty much going to say the same thing due to the fact that I don't think the 22.5 rings are going to fit the 20.5 hub / spokes. Not sure the actual spoke hubs can be changed to the larger size that easily without changing the axles. I honestly would swap for air-brake Budd-wheel axles before I would mess with all that, especially just to wind up with a larger Widowmaker setup that hardly any shop will touch for tire service.

His original wheels would be the "widow" maker split rims. The 22.5 rim would be a tubeless demountable rim with the same profile as any other modern truck rim. These are specifically meant to fit in place of the 20" split rims. So no need to change the spokes.


Any truck tire shop will handle these.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

I see. So are you saying the 22.5s are essentially one-piece wheels made to fit the 20.5 Dayton spoke hub? Interesting...

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

His original wheels would be the "widow" maker split rims. The 22.5 rim would be a tubeless demountable rim with the same profile as any other modern truck rim. These are specifically meant to fit in place of the 20" split rims. So no need to change the spokes.


Any truck tire shop will handle these.

truck shops around here will handle the 80s style 2 piece (lock ring) type rims if they have a cage.. the mobile guys wont touch em..



no tire shop anymore will handle the 3 piece true widow-makers.. (his bus being in 84 was after the widow-maker ban wasnt it? should be lock-ring?)


and all the tire shops around me handle the 22.5" tubeless dayton rims/ tires.. alot of the construction dump trucks and many semi trailers are still running 22.5" dayton hub wheels..

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I see. So are you saying the 22.5s are essentially one-piece wheels made to fit the 20.5 Dayton spoke hub? Interesting...

The 20" 2 or 3 piece rims and the 22.5" single piece rims will typically interchange without issue on dayton hubs. Those numbers only indicate the tire bead diameter. Both rims have an ID of about 18.5" where the rim rides on the hub.

You run into issues with the older 2 piece budd style rims. Some of them had odd center hole sizes and, as said earlier, gm used a 6 lug pattern that is also obscure.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by Engineman

Hey Thank's guys for all the replies! I think I'm going to do what Ronnie and most of you are telling me and try and find some 7.5x22.5 donuts. I was unaware they would fit my 20" Dayton hubs...but that's great! now on the hunt for some used ones lol. Tire shops around here wont touch Dayton wheels their all scared of them. I can mount them and mount the tires as well...I just don't want to lol. I own an automotive machine shop but big truck stuff is not my forte lol. Again thanks for all the input, it's really helpful!

I find it hard to believe nobody near you will do them. But, then again, we don't know where you're at. Like cadillackid said, a lot of the dumptrucks and semi trailers around here have them yet, especially in an ag community like mine.

The 22.5 tires are mounted and dismounted off a dayton rim the same as any other semi tire.

Installing the wheel onto the spoke is the part that takes a little finesse. I've found that it helps to install the clamps and nuts hand tight, truing the wheel, and then tightening the nuts half a turn at a time until torqued to spec. Make sure the wedges, threads, rim and spoke surface is clean. If they're rusty, it will be harder to center them. Also, don't use an impact to install, they don't require the torque that a budd rim does and you'll not only overtorque them doing so, you'll also play hell getting them trued.

[magnakansas]

truck salvage.... the 7.5" rims are less common in dayton 22.5 I paid $35 each from vanderhaags truck salvage. I found a pallet of about 20 of these rims in a florida salvage yard for about $17 each.... but you had to buy the entire pallett. the 7.5 " is better suited the 10r 22.5 tires.

widow makers are a TWO PIECE rim made by firestone...... they are not lock ring, or split ring rims.... I do not think any of these are "outlawed" I have looked and cannot find any thing anywhere evidence of any rim illegal. Now so many dont want to mess with it, They give the excuse of insurance to not handle them at all. I do much of my own stuff, the key point is to keep in mind. Tires - ALL TIRES from time to time BLOW up. Do not stand in the way when you air these things up. There is a reason dumb DNA doesnt make it down the line.

Learn how to do it. I do not keep or use widowmakers. My 1954 ford/wayne came with six of them. I left them alone till I took them of the bus. I let the air out, then ripped of the valve stems to keep any one else from ever putting air in them again... eventually I will cut out the centers and weld them into other rim shells for that "original" look.

you can find 20" tires if you learn how to look. they are about 40% more expensive than tubless 22.5 tires.

anyways.... I have a 1958 international / wayne that has 20" tube type daytons...... I bought six 7.5"x22.5 tubeless daytons. Huge variety in choices of tires.


william

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by magnakansas

... eventually I will cut out the centers and weld them into other rim shells for that "original" look.

william

Technically, non-factory welds would be illegal on a DOT inspection, and that's one of those things that conversion to RV doesn't change the danger.

[BeNimble]

Frankly I'd still swap axles, and probably get disk brakes too. I replaced the entire chassis for my 72 truck, a dodge motorhome chassis with 16 inch 8-lug wheels that are common and inexpensive.
If you want to go traveling, you may need help in remote locations.
A fridge or hotplate or a/c can stop working, but you need tires and brakes to go anywhere. Again, this is why I advocate trailers, not buses..

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I see. So are you saying the 22.5s are essentially one-piece wheels made to fit the 20.5 Dayton spoke hub? Interesting...

Yes. Here is a picture of the rim, tire, and Dayton spoked hub on my bus. Note that the tire is 10R22.5. If you look carefully there is no retaining ring and so this is Not a split rim.


I also took a picture of a "Budd" wheel. This one is actually made by Budd, and is the old style Chevy lug pattern. Notice it is a split rim. Also note that it is centered by the lug bolts. Tire size is 9.00x 20.


Next picture is a modern budd style rim made by Alcoa. 22.5" This is hub piloted notice the "fingers" if you will on the hub to center it.