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Old 09-28-2017, 04:58 PM   #1
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6-71 no turbo w/ dpf towing ability

6-71 no turbo w/ dpf.

I have this motor. I'm not knowledgeable yet, so keep that in mind. I have a 40' pusher in what seems like good condition and with an automatic transmission. I also have a 94 f150 5.8L ext cab w/ toolbox. I want to tow it a 100 miles and through some mountains. Based on your experience does this seem doable? Much appreciated.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:19 PM   #2
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Is this the inline 6-71, or the rather common 6V-71? DPF? This engine did not originally come with a Diesel Particulate Filter so if it has one, it was retrofitted (common on NY and CA buses).

It should tow your ~5000 pound truck fine, as long as the hitch and such is properly and safely mounted and rated for the weight. I see coaches of this size pulling large enclosed trailers.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:55 PM   #3
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Is this the inline 6-71, or the rather common 6V-71? DPF? This engine did not originally come with a Diesel Particulate Filter so if it has one, it was retrofitted (common on NY and CA buses).

It should tow your ~5000 pound truck fine, as long as the hitch and such is properly and safely mounted and rated for the weight. I see coaches of this size pulling large enclosed trailers.
Inline 6-71 from California retrofitted with dpf. Yeah, I did notice the plate for towing and it only had 2 bolt holes on ea side, maybe 6 inches apart or so. And the Harbor Freight car hauler we had on hand would not fit and my welding is not up to that level to fix it. Glad to know it can tow, of course I'm not too surprised but still...good news.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:54 PM   #4
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Inline 6-71 from California retrofitted with dpf. Yeah, I did notice the plate for towing and it only had 2 bolt holes on ea side, maybe 6 inches apart or so. And the Harbor Freight car hauler we had on hand would not fit and my welding is not up to that level to fix it. Glad to know it can tow, of course I'm not too surprised but still...good news.
Ensign noob reporting in... Ok it's opposite...lt is a 6v71 turbo. Never had time to figure it out, had too much time trying to play cat and mouse with registration and previous owner who botched title twice. Info didn't show v in 6v71 also. Found turbo further back than expected.
Have some decent skoolie war stories to add in new thread. driving not being one since it drives easy. Wanted to clear the misinformation.


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Old 10-01-2017, 12:16 AM   #5
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the DPF can be removed, which is what you should do when it clogs up, which it will do, since the retrofitted ones have to be cleaned manually when they fill up
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:30 AM   #6
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I kind of figured as much. The 6V71 engine was *VERY* common in rear-engine buses and coaches. The straight-6 version (I've never even seen one) was likely more common in mid-engine buses.

I'd delete the DPF when it fills up. Most states don't require them at all, and the ones that do, most likely not for private coaches.
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:32 AM   #7
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I will look at it, last thing I want is increased strain on motor or lower mileage. Will be converting starting tomorrow, not driving, then I will learn all I can on this motor..ty


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Old 10-01-2017, 01:09 AM   #8
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What bus is this Detroit in?

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Old 10-01-2017, 09:36 AM   #9
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What bus is this Detroit in?

John
A 91 Crown


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Old 10-01-2017, 10:54 AM   #10
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The towing ability of any Series I Crown Supercoach is not limited by the drivetrain, but by how the tow hitch itself is attached. Frame rails on those buses do not extend further back than the rear axle, so some folk attach tow hitches to the back bumper or body structure, then wonder why the entire rear trunk pulls apart. Crown engineered the rear trunk to be an energy-absorbing crash structure to absorb rear impacts, not to pull heavy loads. You MUST connect a toe hitch forward to the frame rails, not intrinsically difficult but you will need to pay attention to the engineering involved. Crown used 90,000 PSI steel in their construction, so you should be using something comparable - bits of cheap angle iron from Home Depot is not what's needed!

Where are you located?

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Old 10-01-2017, 01:26 PM   #11
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The towing ability of any Series I Crown Supercoach is not limited by the drivetrain, but by how the tow hitch itself is attached. Frame rails on those buses do not extend further back than the rear axle, so some folk attach tow hitches to the back bumper or body structure, then wonder why the entire rear trunk pulls apart. Crown engineered the rear trunk to be an energy-absorbing crash structure to absorb rear impacts, not to pull heavy loads. You MUST connect a toe hitch forward to the frame rails, not intrinsically difficult but you will need to pay attention to the engineering involved. Crown used 90,000 PSI steel in their construction, so you should be using something comparable - bits of cheap angle iron from Home Depot is not what's needed!

Where are you located?

John
I'm in CA and hour east of SF. Waiting for my contact who is going to rent me land so I can convert and reg ASAP.

I almost went w cheap car haul setup the seller of bus was going to reconfigure to fit. The existing mounts I can post in few after I do my best Ansel Adams pic of the mount. Seems like the 2 bolts were too close to give strength imo.


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Old 10-01-2017, 01:39 PM   #12
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I'm in CA and hour east of SF. Waiting for my contact who is going to rent me land so I can convert and reg ASAP.

I almost went w cheap car haul setup the seller of bus was going to reconfigure to fit. The existing mounts I can post in few after I do my best Ansel Adams pic of the mount. Seems like the 2 bolts were too close to give strength imo.


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Here it is, maybe too limited to judge...can take more.

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Old 10-04-2017, 08:47 PM   #13
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I can't help myself, I don't like correcting all kinds of incomplete info....but

It helps so much more to know exactly what kind of bus, year, engine etc. before asking such open ended questions. your first post was almost totally useless in explaining and requesting info. The one thing you did say was "40' pusher" I think Icenijohn missed that in his reply or he wouldn't have given you the info regarding the Crown Supercoaches with mid-mounted underfloor engines. These where always inline 6 cylinders and usually 6-71's either turbo's or not depending on year of manufacture. Cummins were also used but less so for various reasons at the time. I'm going out on a limb here and guess that what you really have is a 1991 Crown Supercoach II with a rear-mounted engine. They were the only, rear-mounted engine, style Crown ever mass built except for some extremely rare and unusual custom builds, and they are very squared off in their body lines, unlike the classic Supercoach rounded body style. That being established and assuming you can readily identify a "V" engine and not one of the inline Cummins, or Cats that were used in numbers in the Crown II's, we will assume that what you really have is, no doubt, a Detroit Diesel 6V-92, (probably silver in color), (NEVER a 6V-71, not powerful enough) and this was very common and usually NOT turbo'd in that coach, due to high heat rejection issues (they get too hot unless maintained) as Icenijohn knows all about. He has one of these exact configurations and is a wealth of information on them. By the way, with the rear mounted engine, there will be more strength members in the frame to carry the loads, which may make it easier to add a tow point. He can help with this as well. One thing of great value would be a photo, or at least a listing of the info from the data plate with model number etc. These identify as-built and engine options, and all Crowns had them when built.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:07 PM   #14
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It helps so much more to know exactly what kind of bus, year, engine etc. before asking such open ended questions. your first post was almost totally useless in explaining and requesting info. The one thing you did say was "40' pusher" I think Icenijohn missed that in his reply or he wouldn't have given you the info regarding the Crown Supercoaches with mid-mounted underfloor engines. These where always inline 6 cylinders and usually 6-71's either turbo's or not depending on year of manufacture. Cummins were also used but less so for various reasons at the time. I'm going out on a limb here and guess that what you really have is a 1991 Crown Supercoach II with a rear-mounted engine. They were the only, rear-mounted engine, style Crown ever mass built except for some extremely rare and unusual custom builds, and they are very squared off in their body lines, unlike the classic Supercoach rounded body style. That being established and assuming you can readily identify a "V" engine and not one of the inline Cummins, or Cats that were used in numbers in the Crown II's, we will assume that what you really have is, no doubt, a Detroit Diesel 6V-92, (probably silver in color), (NEVER a 6V-71, not powerful enough) and this was very common and usually NOT turbo'd in that coach, due to high heat rejection issues (they get too hot unless maintained) as Icenijohn knows all about. He has one of these exact configurations and is a wealth of information on them. By the way, with the rear mounted engine, there will be more strength members in the frame to carry the loads, which may make it easier to add a tow point. He can help with this as well. One thing of great value would be a photo, or at least a listing of the info from the data plate with model number etc. These identify as-built and engine options, and all Crowns had them when built.
It's been confusing. The seller knew very little English, he gave me the wrong title and was several days late with that. I haven't had the right info. But I could smell a deal and that's just how I work. I would like to know more about what I have as this is a major undertaking for a mere mortal of my limited income and knowledge.

I see 6v92 on the motor. Threw me off since it's sold to me as a 92 year.
You can see the jpg I posted. I thought I said Crown but suppose I didn't. I have jpg of mount posted At least it was useful that I posted something, given that the Mexican seller told me ****-all. Dumb question is one not asked and such.

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Old 10-04-2017, 11:06 PM   #15
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Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
You have the same model bus as mine. It is a Crown Supercoach Series II, with a Detroit 6V92TAC, and probably a MT64x transmission (your bus has the less powerful 253HP engine, so I'm guessing it originally had a methanol engine?). Does it have a grill on the side compartment door just ahead of the right rear wheels? If so, that's where the methanol fuel cooler was located. Ex-methanol buses also had a fire-suppression system in the compartment behind the right rear wheels, a huge 200-gallon fuel tank, and the center top warning light on the gauge panel is red and says STOP if the fire system is activated. Do you have this on your bus?

Where is your bus from? Ventura is selling their ex-methanol Super IIs now, and Rialto will also be selling theirs soon. Provenance is important! My bus was from Mid-Placer Public Schools at Auburn CA in the foothills of the Sierras.

The two bumper mounts with two oblong holes each are for optional tow hooks. They would be a good place to attach a tow hitch on to, unless you plan on installing some hooks there instead. However, a tow hitch will be close to the ground if it's under the bumper, not a problem until you go up a steep driveway and grind it against the ground. You could cut a hole for it through the bumper itself, but the bumper is very hard 3/16" steel, not easy to cut through. (I made three openings in my bumpers for front and rear foglights, so I know how hard it is!) My bus actually has a front tow hitch hidden behind the front license plate which I've now hinged on the bumper, but that wasn't a Crown option.

And yes, your engine is turbocharged, and it also has a Roots-type scavenge blower like all Detroit 2-strokes have. It has DDEC II electronic engine management (the metal box with two 30-pin connectors and three smaller connectors on its end, and a fuel cooler plate on the top with a fuel hose going to the secondary fuel filter). If it has any type of exhaust control system such as DEF or DPF, it's not original, and won't be needed for private non-commercial use as a Housecar in California.

As Crown Guy said, these engines have a tendency to overheat if not driven correctly. The single most important gauge you have is for coolant temperature - watch it like a hawk when driving, especially when climbing or in hot weather, and DON'T LUG THE ENGINE! It's best to climb long grades in 3rd gear with a 3/4 throttle at about 1900 RPM - don't just floor it. And if it does begin to overheat, turn on the heaters - their total 150,000 BTU'hour capacity will drop engine temps by a few degrees. One benefit of having the 253HP version of the 6V92 is that it should produce less heat than my 277HP version, making less demands on the cooling system. I had to completely replace my entire cooling system to solve some perennial overheating issues - new radiator, fan, fan motor, pump, control valve, and lots of other things.

John

PS - do NOT lug the engine!

PPS - do NOT lug the engine!
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:11 AM   #16
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You have the same model bus as mine. It is a Crown Supercoach Series II, with a Detroit 6V92TAC, and probably a MT64x transmission (your bus has the less powerful 253HP engine, so I'm guessing it originally had a methanol engine?). Does it have a grill on the side compartment door just ahead of the right rear wheels? If so, that's where the methanol fuel cooler was located. Ex-methanol buses also had a fire-suppression system in the compartment behind the right rear wheels, a huge 200-gallon fuel tank, and the center top warning light on the gauge panel is red and says STOP if the fire system is activated. Do you have this on your bus?

Where is your bus from? Ventura is selling their ex-methanol Super IIs now, and Rialto will also be selling theirs soon. Provenance is important! My bus was from Mid-Placer Public Schools at Auburn CA in the foothills of the Sierras.

The two bumper mounts with two oblong holes each are for optional tow hooks. They would be a good place to attach a tow hitch on to, unless you plan on installing some hooks there instead. However, a tow hitch will be close to the ground if it's under the bumper, not a problem until you go up a steep driveway and grind it against the ground. You could cut a hole for it through the bumper itself, but the bumper is very hard 3/16" steel, not easy to cut through. (I made three openings in my bumpers for front and rear foglights, so I know how hard it is!) My bus actually has a front tow hitch hidden behind the front license plate which I've now hinged on the bumper, but that wasn't a Crown option.

And yes, your engine is turbocharged, and it also has a Roots-type scavenge blower like all Detroit 2-strokes have. It has DDEC II electronic engine management (the metal box with two 30-pin connectors and three smaller connectors on its end, and a fuel cooler plate on the top with a fuel hose going to the secondary fuel filter). If it has any type of exhaust control system such as DEF or DPF, it's not original, and won't be needed for private non-commercial use as a Housecar in California.

As Crown Guy said, these engines have a tendency to overheat if not driven correctly. The single most important gauge you have is for coolant temperature - watch it like a hawk when driving, especially when climbing or in hot weather, and DON'T LUG THE ENGINE! It's best to climb long grades in 3rd gear with a 3/4 throttle at about 1900 RPM - don't just floor it. And if it does begin to overheat, turn on the heaters - their total 150,000 BTU'hour capacity will drop engine temps by a few degrees. One benefit of having the 253HP version of the 6V92 is that it should produce less heat than my 277HP version, making less demands on the cooling system. I had to completely replace my entire cooling system to solve some perennial overheating issues - new radiator, fan, fan motor, pump, control valve, and lots of other things.

John

PS - do NOT lug the engine!

PPS - do NOT lug the engine!
Much appreciated. I did not see a red light on dash but I do have a door on passenger side. The door has a large cylinder tank that is only component which is greasy. I hope it's dpf. Bus is bought and from Bakersfield, CA.

What I want to tow is a pickup so maybe it gives me a few inches for avoiding scrapes at steep angles. It's a high mileage vehicle, I can live with some scrapes if they are small, I guess. I might inflate the trucks rear air lift/bags for less bounce. Not planning on towing it often but for a 1000 mile trip once


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Old 10-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #17
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definition of lugging the engine

Detroit 2-stroke owners will always emphatically stress DON"T LUG the engine. That's defined as keeping the RPM's up in the engines' sweet spot of operation. Simply stated, you don't ever want to put your foot down for full power demands while the engine is operating lower than about 1600 RPM's. If you do, you're stressing the internal main bearings, while also experiencing a loss of oil pressure at these low RPM's. This is a normal quirk of the design, the oil pressure at idle will be low, like around 10psi, or even lower, and this is normal as designed by Detroit Diesel. It rises rapidly and should be over 30psi at about 1400 rpm or so. The point is to keep the engine in it's critical operating range of between 1600(extreme minimum) and 2300 RPM, preferably staying between 1800 and 2300. They like and need to be turning around 2000 RPM's. The really critical point though is that the water pump circulates more water and carries heat away faster as a direct result of engine RPM's. That's one of several important reasons to gear down, even manually overriding the transmission, since the driver is supposed to know more about the current driving conditions and how long the grade will last. Downshift, which lets you ease off the throttle, and circulates more coolant from the engine to the radiator, the fan turns faster and pulls in more cool air, the oil pressure stays up, providing the lubrication for the heavy work load, and the individual cylinders aren't using so much fuel and banging away so hard on all the internal bearing, rings, and parts, which also makes it easier on things in general. What you want to achieve is a nice smooth flow of power at close to top governed speed with a little bit of throttle pedal left to call on. This is a balanced and sustainable power draw that can be kept up for hours because the engine doesn't see it any different than a sustained high speed highway run. That's also good advice for the highway cruising too, just a little bit of pedal left so you aren't thrashing it to death on the governor. All the while you must watch the temp gauge like a hawk, as John said, and if it still trends upward you need to downshift again until the heat is balanced. Assuming you can do that, you can keep it there as long as needed. If you can't control the heat build-up, and find a point of balance, then you are experiencing a problem with your cooling system and all related parts, and that's how you find out what you have in the way of a road worthy bus.
Bottom line is that a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke must be kept in it's operating range or you will experience a sharp fall off and lack of power for sure, and probably start causing damage that will cause major expenses. Keep the RPM"S up above 2000 RPM's in a pull, and to keep your temp gauge down. If you do that you will get the most out of it, and with time you'll learn to love them like those of us who drive them already do. If driven correctly they will give 100's of thousands of trouble free miles, but if abused, they will leave you hanging and usually at the worst time possible. Read up, and get educated on them as much as you can, and find somebody near you with experience in DD 2-strokes, who can take you for a drive and show you what to do. It's a real eye opener and could potentially save you ton's of money as well as ruined trips. What you have is an awesome vehicle and engine combination extremely well engineered, and with care will live longer than you. If you're in it for the long haul, then it's worth learning all you can to get the most out of it, and that's really worth it.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:07 PM   #18
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Roger the above. My old supercharged DD6V53 "Screamer" ran at 2800 and was happy at 3000. Below about 2 grand and it was lugging.

2 stroke diesels are different animals.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:16 PM   #19
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Roger the above. My old supercharged DD6V53 "Screamer" ran at 2800 and was happy at 3000. Below about 2 grand and it was lugging.

2 stroke diesels are different animals.
Well I'm going to print this and study it and keep it. Oh, Regarding the extinguisher, it's there on the passenger side near motor. Charged 2016. Thanks folks. Will come back to this thread in 2 days to check in.

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Old 10-07-2017, 12:22 PM   #20
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Looking for manual of sorts

Crown Supercoach Series II, with a Detroit 6V92TAC

I am in the stage of being 12v solar electrician, carpenter, painter, DOT inspector, plumber (somewhat). Same thing all of you have probably done. It's just all at once. Will be looking forward to end of month when it slows a bit and I can enjoy this. I did quick search for a manual but I have to think that is not going to be easily found, which is why I need to lean on the community. Do you know where I can find technical info on the coach and or motor?

Side note: I have seats out, electrical is shipping and bus is being sanded, for what it's worth.
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