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Old 01-09-2022, 07:53 AM   #1
Almost There
 
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Year: 2002
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Engine: Series 60
Detroit 50 EGR dropped a cylinder, causing a misfire.

Welp one of my buses decided to drop a cylinder and its now causing a misfire.

I had a shop tell me $21k to cut the bore, is this right?

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Old 01-09-2022, 10:36 AM   #2
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There are multiple reasons for a diesel engine to quit firing on a cylinder. I am not familiar with the Detroit 50 series engine, but I would think, based on what I know that the cylinders are sleeved, meaning you could replace the sleeve and piston/rings and that cylinder would be like new.

I would say that shop doesn't want the work. A fresh rebuilt engine or a good used engine would be cheaper that that.
Do you get smoke from the tailpipe?
Is it white or dark smoke?
Do you know if the injector is any good?


I invite other familiar with your engine to respond.
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Old 01-09-2022, 10:43 AM   #3
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Yup, I get white smoke coming from the engine.
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Old 01-09-2022, 10:55 AM   #4
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im assuming the shop took compression? and the shop shot oil in the cylinder and then took compression again?



inspected under the valve cover for rocker / pushrod issues?



there aere things to tell if a rebuild is truly needed..



putting a little oil in a cylinder and re-taking compression.. if you have a ring problem the new readings will come back higher at first because the oil helps to seal bad rings better... if it stays the same (and isnt near zero) then its likely a top end issue.. valvetrain... if it actually dropped a valve then yes a rebuild is usually required.. but broken / bent pushrods can indicate a valve stuck and got tagged by a piston bending it.. thats often a top-end repair (remove the head)..


handing out a quote for 21k requires there being some in depth explanation and diagnosis beyond (yep its busted)..
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
im assuming the shop took compression? and the shop shot oil in the cylinder and then took compression again?



inspected under the valve cover for rocker / pushrod issues?



there aere things to tell if a rebuild is truly needed..



putting a little oil in a cylinder and re-taking compression.. if you have a ring problem the new readings will come back higher at first because the oil helps to seal bad rings better... if it stays the same (and isnt near zero) then its likely a top end issue.. valvetrain... if it actually dropped a valve then yes a rebuild is usually required.. but broken / bent pushrods can indicate a valve stuck and got tagged by a piston bending it.. thats often a top-end repair (remove the head)..


handing out a quote for 21k requires there being some in depth explanation and diagnosis beyond (yep its busted)..
Yeah sadly some of these shops see a bus and give you a ridiculous price so you go somewhere else.

Idk what they did as they had me wait in the waiting area, but they came out and showed me a thick puff of white smoke coming from the engine. They said it was "blown" which doesn't make sense as the bus still runs it's just misfiring. Then I took it to my friend who told me it dropped a cylinder.

I don't know why, but it's always my EGR buses that have a problem, especially with the DD50 EGR's. I have 4 buses with series 60 engines that run flawlessly. Perhaps I need to cut the PM interval in half to 3000 miles because this is ridiculous.
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:25 AM   #6
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what do you mean by "dropped a cylilnder" one isnt firing? theres a reason for it not to fire.. its piston broke? broken rings? bent or broken valves? broken pushrods?



or your termoinlogy is just not something I understand..



with EGR the most common thing to happen is EGR cooler leaks bad enough that coolent runs into a cylinder , hydrolocks it and you bust the piston or lift the head off the engine...



the pre-cursor is a leaking EGR cooler where enough coolant runs into a cylinder that the fuel wont burn (or not well) and you get lots of white steam / smoke combined from the tail (and a noticeable loss of coolant from the system)..



thurd thing ive seen with broken EGR is a stuck EGR valve that sends so much recirculated exhaust into the engine that it chokes on itself and wont run right...



thus why i ask about compression tests and the like..
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what do you mean by "dropped a cylilnder" one isnt firing? theres a reason for it not to fire.. its piston broke? broken rings? bent or broken valves? broken pushrods?



or your termoinlogy is just not something I understand..



with EGR the most common thing to happen is EGR cooler leaks bad enough that coolent runs into a cylinder , hydrolocks it and you bust the piston or lift the head off the engine...



the pre-cursor is a leaking EGR cooler where enough coolant runs into a cylinder that the fuel wont burn (or not well) and you get lots of white steam / smoke combined from the tail (and a noticeable loss of coolant from the system)..



thurd thing ive seen with broken EGR is a stuck EGR valve that sends so much recirculated exhaust into the engine that it chokes on itself and wont run right...



thus why i ask about compression tests and the like..
This is what he said "No compression on cylinder 1". He's out of town and won't be back until Monday. That's why the shop telling me the engine is "blown" has me confused, if one cylinder isn't firing that doesn't mean the engine is blown.
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the7exp View Post
...if one cylinder isn't firing that doesn't mean the engine is blown.
Definitely not. If a valve is stuck open, you won't get compression and the unburnt diesel will escape as white smoke. And a stuck or bent valve is really minor, compared to a "blown engine." I'd be looking for another shop, for sure.

BTW, we have 2 buses with Series 50 engines and they've been fantastic. But I'm jealous of anyone who's got a 60 in a bus! Can you say rocket?
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:58 AM   #9
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unfortunately in todays world people love to throw around scare-terms like "engine is blown" you "must have a new one".. those big rebuilds often net high profits when they can charge the customer Book-hours and do the job in half the time..



in the HVAC world its "your furnace is old therefore its unsafe and needs replaced"...

I just fixed a neighbor's furnace where a company told her exactly that.. with no information.. I replaced the bad (and cheap) part, ran my testo combustion analyzer on it and its running Perfectly.....



so hopefully when the mechanics return you will get an explanation of what they feel is wrong with the engine...
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Old 01-15-2022, 05:43 PM   #10
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White smoke.....coolant getting into the cylinder maybe.
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Old 01-15-2022, 07:37 PM   #11
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There's a lot of series 50 & 60 Detroit's on the road with well over 1 million miles that have been troubl free. Most needing only bearings at a 1/2 million miles. The series 60 is the only engine that I ever had that would start at -70* f with no trouble.
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