No start - Detroit Diesel 6.2L non turbo HELP!

[frank-id]

Please include your phone number. Maybe I can guide ya to make your engine run. Frank in Idaho
frank.id.crownatgmail.com

[timbuk]

so you have fuel to the engine? pul out a glow plug get it wet with diesel and turn the key see if it smokes the fuel and gets hot. these things are famous for injector pump problems dont get that starter too hot they are xpensive-its fuel and aaaaaair-thats it

[bbbrt76]

for any diesel cranking speed is absolutely essential whether a weak starter or poor/dirty/corroded connections if the motor is turning over slowly that is the first thing you need to fix, time for glow plugs sounds short but is dependent upon temp, and I don't know how cold it is there, but get it spinning properly first.

[bbbrt76]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Found a brand-new high-torque gear-reduction design, $130 on eBay including shipping if anyone needs one for a 6.2.... I am not sure if the 8.2 Detroit engine uses the same starter?

I doubt it very much the 8.2 is a very different engine than the 6.2

[elkoskoolie]

I'm not sure, but I don't think you want to use ether / starting fluid on a motor with glow plugs. The plugs may pre-ignite the fluid (which is mixed with the incoming air, not injected at the precise moment to combust as diesel is), causing bad things to happen.....
I think there are Cummins engines with "heater grids" which pre-warm the air that will also make ether go "Boom"
I tried this once on my Ford 7.3 pickup; made a mess out of the air filter housing. That was back in my younger days, otherwise would have made another mess!!

[frank-id]

After many posts of bad things about using any starting aid, my view.... I love starting fluid. I use the product to start about every type of engine. This stuff works great with or without glow plugs. If any engine is turning, any amount of fluid can be sprayed into the air intake. Any engine that is running can helped with start fluid. Spraying fluid into a engine that is not turning can be trouble, depending on the amount of fluid sprayed. I have a Ford 7.3 the the glow plug controller died a couple years ago. Every first start in the morning is done with start fluid. In the summer months, only the first start requires a squirt. I have a starter push button switch under my hood to spin the engine. My Int/blue bird bus is starter the same method. The starters last a very long time as also do the batteries. The engine turn about 15 times a quick squirt and the engine is running. My other bus and old Crown with a 743 is started at the engine with a factory starter button. Just grinding the starter is not good for any parts. Trying to start a cold diesel with low batteries is very destructive. It takes just a few minutes to check battery voltage. Ok, yep, I have a digital volt meter in a good place. After the main switch is closed, the batteries voltage is known. Frank

[paul iossi]

crack all of the injector lines at the injectors and crank as you get fuel at the injectors tighten the lines up and the engine should start.

[paul iossi]

for many years gm used the same 2 bolts into the bottom of the block starter mount, the starters were different depending on engine size and compression, just because it fits doesn't make it the right starter.
IIRC, the 6.2l has wide valvecovers that look more like a big block chevy.
the engine should try to fire/start if you have 4 injecer lines bled out, tighten them up at both ends and continue the crank &bleed proceedure on the rest of the lines tightening them as they get fuel at the injecters

do you get any smoke out of the exhaust when you crank the engine?

is the fuel solinoin working properly and allowing fuel into the injection pump when the key is on?

the governor should take the pump to full thottle internally when the engine is not running

[Redbear]

I have heard about certain military-grade Chevy trucks having an option for a 24V starting system along with the standard 12V electrical system. I am beginning to wonder if someone tried to convert this motorhome to a 24V system, screwed it up, and now I'm cleaning up the mess.

FWIW, We had 4 surplus "CUCV" Chevy pickups given to the State. CUCV's were either pickups or full-sized Blazers.

The 24-volt system used two 12-volt batteries in series, and two special 12-volt alternators, one for each battery. The alternator negative appears on a terminal isolated from the case, so one alternator can make +0 to +14 volts, while the other makes +12 to +28. Except for starting, the whole truck (military plug-ins excepted) runs on 12 volts from the first battery and alternator. There is a 24-volt starter, and I think the solenoid coil on the starter is also 24 volts with a control relay under the dash connected to the key.

The 12-volt glow plugs are fed 24 volts through the control solenoid and a huge dropping resistor on the firewall. I envision this as a battlefield escape feature, like making every ignition key the same. If all eight glow plugs are good, they each get 12 volts. If four burn out, the load on the resistor is less and the other four get 16 volts. If you are down to two glow plugs, they each get 19.2 volts. The last surviving plug gets hit with 21.3 volts.

[Redbear]

Is anyone familiar enough with the 6.2 that they might know how to hot wire the glow plug controller?

My only experience is with the military surplus CUCV pickup installations. I had starter problems on one of the trucks and an alternator problem on another, but I never had to work on glow plugs. I did scope out all the under-hood wiring, though.

Whatever the brains of the controller was, the control output fed an under-hood solenoid, like a Ford starter or a Skoolie accessory feed solenoid. I remember it cycled about 3 seconds on, 3 seconds off until the controller decided the engine didn't need any more.

I had also looked up some information posted by the military vehicle buffs at http://www.steelsoldiers.com. I recall reading that the Chevy glow plugs burned out fairly easy, and some of the owners had installed Wellman 070 aftermarket (?) plugs. One source they list for the replacements was http://www.parramore.com.

To hot wire the glow plugs, I'd run the solenoid coil to a push button, and count to no more than 5 for each press or release. Or, get a Cole-Hersee battery disconnect switch, and run the heavy wires to the dash. Much simpler, but more of a fire hazard.

I just looked back at Steel Soldiers, and many of the members had bypassed the controller. Some of them leave the controller board in place, because they say the "Wait" light works normally whether it's operating a working solenoid or not. FWIW, one of the posters stated the rule of thumb when he was in the service was that after 7 seconds of bypass power you tear down the engine to remove broken pieces of glow plug.

[paul iossi]

cheese;
good stuff on the engines,
the oldsmodiesel was a gas engine conversion that was put into the hands of an unknowing public that didn't understand it's maintainence needs, it also had some driveability issues that were best remedied with a conversion back to gas with salvage yard parts after the warranty expired.

the detroit diesel was developed to fill a void in the medium duty truck lineup to compete with the international diesels that were developed for the skoolie market, the 3208 cat and the 5.9 cummins B

gmc used some oldsmodiesels in 1/2 ton pickups for a couple of years, but the first real diesel pickups were the dodges with the 5.9 cummins in the mid 80's

[timbuk]

this is what i would do to that thing...........bring on the cheesewagon

[KDN]

I have a 93 Chevy with a 6.5 I believe it is similar to the 6.2 you have. My 1st thought after reading the post was, Have you check out the lift pump. It should be frame mounted and if it's not pushing fuel up to the injector pump, then No start. 2nd thought was my truck refused to start last winter when we hit -40 Worked on it for days. It ended up being flooded. fuel got trapped in the cylinders after repeated cranking. I pulled the glow plugs and cranked it over to get the fuel out, started right up after that. my 2 cents. Willy

[KDN]

Well seems i missed the fact that there are 2 more pages on this post. LOL Glad you got it running.

[Will]

Being as the 6.2 was in pickups since 1982 I think they beat the Cummins by a bit. Dodge, in 1978-79 had the Mitsubishi 6DR-50A available in full-size pickups. It's about 4-liters, 100hp and 160ft#. That's the first I guess, unless you count the Scout.

The 6.2 gets a bad rap that it doesn't deserve. It's a high-compression, indirect injection motor. It was designed to take up the same space as a 454 and deliver great fuel economy with an acceptable amount of power. It was an expensive option, and the turbocharger would have added a lot more to the price. This is being designed while that stupid Mustang II and the Pinto are still on the roads. You consider that the 6.5 is still being built brand new by GEP as the Optimizer 6500, 205hp 440ft# turbocharged, this motor has been in manufacture for 28 years. There have been changes, but the Model T, which was in production for only 19 years, had 24 engine block changes and 20 cylinder head changes.

A 6.2/6.5 suffers from the same thing Ford IDI engine suffer from--the DB2 injection pump. It's good for 250hp max and 450ft#. You need a turbo to get there, of course. Aftermarket pumps are not too expensive, but you need low-compression pistons. They have been available in the recent past. And some blocks may not be up to it.

Personally, I can't stand a naturally aspirated diesel.There's no power, it's loud and it runs hot. I have a Banks turbo on mine. I've had it for 60,000 miles just about, daily driver and tows things like a skidsteer, small backhoe and a little bulldozer. I have a Gear Vendors splitter and its a great truck. It never runs out of power, it gets too close to the 1,100 EGT limit and you back off. I'm not a hotrod guy so if you are into squirting black smoke into the sky, this isn't your engine. With low compression psitons and a big turbo these can make 300hp, 600ft# though. You might want a new engine block though. GM didn't envision that much power I don't think.

By the way, that DB2 pump is self bleeding. You don't need to crack the injector lines. That hose coming out of the pump cover takes air back to the fuel tank. What you need, for the future, is to install an electric boost pump from a later 6.2/6.5. At the parts counter ask for a lift pump for a 1990 1500, for example. You can then bypass the mechanical lift pump (if you install a turbo the lift pump comes out and a plate with a fitting to drain the lube oil from the turbo goes there. You can find that plate, or use the block-off plate from a later model truck) and if you run it out of fuel, just turn the key on for a bit to purge the pump. it still takes some cranking or course, because each injection is small, but keep your foot to the floor and it will soon start.

Another thing I've found is that the aluminum casting for the fuel filter/seperator can get air leaks in it that you can't find. And also the fuel heater in there is a pain in the ass to keep functioning. You buy a Racor 245 with a fuel heater built in and throw out the Standyne filter. I have an old body truck and the 245 fits on the bolt holes where the original fit. If you have a filter on the manifold, I doubt it will. But it can go anywhere.

Another thing, the mushrooming injector thing is not a problem unless you have a military vehcile with a 24V system and a 6.2. The starter is 24V, but the glowplugs are 12V. If you find a way to hit the glowplugs with 24V, supposedly they will mushroom and you can't get them out without pulling the heads. I think cranking the engine with the glowplug light lit on the dash may give 24V to them. It's not a worry though. And I really recommend Optima redtops. These high compression motors are a bitch to turn over fast enough. I was using the Exide yellow top truck batteries from Wal-Mart--I was like a parade turning them in for credit. I've had these red Optimas for 6 years and they are still great.

[NewSkewlHauler]

I know this thread is really old, but I just have to chime in...plus, I seem to officially kill a thread for good...not because I have anything good to say, of course.

I have seen an Olds diesel in a Chevy...I had a 1982 Chevy Malibu diesel for about a year! Great car...always ran and started. Got 20 mpg doing 75 on the interstate, too. It blew both head gaskets and the rear main seal failed. At the time I didn't have the tools, time, talent, or money to fix it. So I drove it to the junkyard! I've been tempted to see if it's still there...the body and interior were immaculate. But that was 10 years ago, so I'm sure it's in pieces. Poor thing.

I also had a friend who had the Olds diesel in an 81 Pontiac Grand Prix...that was fairly common. People liked to find those because they were emissions exempt as diesels, so people were pulling the diesel and putting in different motors.

Now I have an 83 GMC K1500 with a 1992 6.2L Goodwrench replacement motor and a 1988 GMC C60 Bluebird bus with an 8.2L! I have found that the 6.2 is not as forgiving when it comes to running out of fuel versus the 8.2...the 8.2 starts SOOOOOOO much easier! No more running out of fuel for me though!!

Ben.