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Old 10-28-2019, 10:02 PM   #1
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1988 s1853 dt 360 hauler build and upgrades

I'm looking to make some extra power from my bus so it's not dangerously slow after highway gears are installed. A turbo upgrade and intercooler seems like a very good start. I can get a good deal on a 6.0 powerstroke Garret gt3782va which is a variable geometry. I haven't really looked to deep into this just throwing it out there. I'm planning to run propane injection possibly as well. From what I understand a small amount of propane helps the existing fuel burn more completely as well as being more available fuel if the boost is turned up. Any thoughts on this from anyone experienced with this drive train. The bus is a 5 speed. I haven't even picked it up yet so I'm kinda ansy getting project plans ironed out. Screenshot_20190923-204636_Facebook.jpgScreenshot_20190915-020005_Facebook.jpgScreenshot_20190915-020053_Facebook.jpg
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:35 PM   #2
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I have a very similar bus with the same drivetrain. I want to turn mine up as well but the torque rating on the transmission is just above the power output of the dt360 in stock form. I don't think you can safely get much more out of it without an upgrade in that department.my 2¢
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:31 AM   #3
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How much torque are we making? Is the Spicer 5 speed that weak? I'm not going to be anywhere near the gvwr I don't think. Not even with a car in the back.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:51 AM   #4
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How much torque are we making? Is the Spicer 5 speed that weak? I'm not going to be anywhere near the gvwr I don't think. Not even with a car in the back.
I wouldn't take it too far with high hp engine mods. highway gears and a turn or two of the fuel screw would probably do WONDERS without hurting longevity.
The DT360 is a fine little motor that will last incredibly long if cared for.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:02 AM   #5
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Yeah, check your torque ratings of everything before you start putting a bunch of power to it.

Second step is to add a pyrometer into the exhaust manifold to know that you're not pushing it too hard.

The 6.0 powerstroke turbo wouldn't be an option in my book. It's a variable geometry turbo that requires a controller of some sort that I'm not sure is available from the aftermarket. Some people have used them with a manual pwm controller, but you'll have to constantly adjust that to keep it from overspeeding or surging.

I'm not sure what turbo you currently have or what came on them stock, so I can't really make any upgrade recommendations. I would assume an hx35 or hx40 from holset would be a cheap and functional choice.

I think those dt360 engines came with a bosch mw pump, which should be able to have the fuel turned up similar to what the dodge boys do with their p7100 pumps.

An intercooler is always a good idea when you're building anything more then 10 or so pounds of boost.

I wouldn't bother with propane, you should be able to get what you want without having to carry along an extra fuel source.

Truthfully, I'd swap the highway gears in before I'd make engine mods. I can go 70 on the flats with mine and it can't have more then 175 hp. You might be surprised by the capabilities of what you have.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:08 AM   #6
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Ive got 190hp and a 545 but the highway gearing makes my bus a real interstate machine.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:43 PM   #7
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Yeah, check your torque ratings of everything before you start putting a bunch of power to it.

Second step is to add a pyrometer into the exhaust manifold to know that you're not pushing it too hard.

The 6.0 powerstroke turbo wouldn't be an option in my book. It's a variable geometry turbo that requires a controller of some sort that I'm not sure is available from the aftermarket. Some people have used them with a manual pwm controller, but you'll have to constantly adjust that to keep it from overspeeding or surging.

I'm not sure what turbo you currently have or what came on them stock, so I can't really make any upgrade recommendations. I would assume an hx35 or hx40 from holset would be a cheap and functional choice.

I think those dt360 engines came with a bosch mw pump, which should be able to have the fuel turned up similar to what the dodge boys do with their p7100 pumps.

An intercooler is always a good idea when you're building anything more then 10 or so pounds of boost.

I wouldn't bother with propane, you should be able to get what you want without having to carry along an extra fuel source.

Truthfully, I'd swap the highway gears in before I'd make engine mods. I can go 70 on the flats with mine and it can't have more then 175 hp. You might be surprised by the capabilities of what you have.
Oh yeah. Pyrometer is actually one of the first things I'm doing. I have some alt fuel experiments going on in my Mercedes that seems very happy with it but I'm being conservative until that has one as well. I've found these 20-30$ digital boxes with alarm relays that can start devices or a buzzer but I don't know if the cheapies are the exact same as the 60$ ones. I didn't see any electrical plugs on that turbo us I read about a guy running one on a Mazda project, so I'm not sure your right about needing a controller but it is very possible. I figured it was pressure differential/rpm controlled.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:43 PM   #8
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Ive got 190hp and a 545 but the highway gearing makes my bus a real interstate machine.
That is a direct drive auto right? What tires and gears are you running?
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:06 PM   #9
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That is a direct drive auto right? What tires and gears are you running?
Yeah its a 1:1 4th with no OD. Doesn't need it!
545 slushbox with 3.42 rear end and 10R 22.5 tires. I'd love to put some 11R's on but my gearing is already super high so I don't want to go crazy and lug it. Its right in its sweet spot.

With your setup you'll just need some gear out back to match your intended purpose and you'll be golden. Maybe something like 4.10 to 4.44 with 11R's.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:39 AM   #10
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Oh yeah. Pyrometer is actually one of the first things I'm doing. I have some alt fuel experiments going on in my Mercedes that seems very happy with it but I'm being conservative until that has one as well. I've found these 20-30$ digital boxes with alarm relays that can start devices or a buzzer but I don't know if the cheapies are the exact same as the 60$ ones. I didn't see any electrical plugs on that turbo us I read about a guy running one on a Mazda project, so I'm not sure your right about needing a controller but it is very possible. I figured it was pressure differential/rpm controlled.
Good to hear on the pyrometer. Truthfully you can go mild to wild when it comes to any gauge. I think a K-type thermocouple is a K-type thermocouple, meaning that you don't have to spend big bucks on it if you don't want to. You can get a cheap thermocouple off amazon( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ), use a $50 digital read out from auber instruments( https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...products_id=19 ) , and have yourself a functioning egt gauge.

Or you can go to isspro.com and spend 500 bucks on one.

The 6.0 powerstroke Garret gt3782va turbo uses oil pressure to control the vgt vanes. That oil pressure is regulated by an electric solenoid on top of the turbo. You'll need some sort of controller to provide a pwm signal to the solenoid in order to actuate the vanes. An arduino circuit can provide a simple pwm signal that you can use to control the vanes, but that would essentially turn it into a fixed geometry turbo unless you plan on adjusting it all the time.

To do it properly, you need to have some sort of controller that monitors drive and boost pressures and adjusts the vgt vanes to keep that ratio in it's sweet spot. That's how most vgt's operate. Probably wouldn't be hard to build a controller to do that, but I'm not currently capable of it.

There are modern turbos that can function just as well as that garrett that aren't that complex. Remember, the 6.0 turbos aren't a poster child for reliability.

I don't know of any vgt turbo that is mechanically operated. Some have modified the cummins he351ve vgt, but those setups always looked jerry rigged to me.
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:02 AM   #11
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the DT360s are mostly all Bosch 'A' pumped.. some of the later ones were MW pumps.. from what ive been reading its not much more than just a new pump gear to P-pump a DT360


the A-pump can be turned up a bit but not nearly as much as an MW or P pump..



the 6.0 turno is the last turbo i would go with... if you are REALLY going to turn up the juice then I would go compound before VGT on a DT..

-Christopher
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:55 PM   #12
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Good to hear on the pyrometer. Truthfully you can go mild to wild when it comes to any gauge. I think a K-type thermocouple is a K-type thermocouple, meaning that you don't have to spend big bucks on it if you don't want to. You can get a cheap thermocouple off amazon( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ), use a $50 digital read out from auber instruments( https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...products_id=19 ) , and have yourself a functioning egt gauge.



Or you can go to isspro.com and spend 500 bucks on one.



The 6.0 powerstroke Garret gt3782va turbo uses oil pressure to control the vgt vanes. That oil pressure is regulated by an electric solenoid on top of the turbo. You'll need some sort of controller to provide a pwm signal to the solenoid in order to actuate the vanes. An arduino circuit can provide a simple pwm signal that you can use to control the vanes, but that would essentially turn it into a fixed geometry turbo unless you plan on adjusting it all the time.



To do it properly, you need to have some sort of controller that monitors drive and boost pressures and adjusts the vgt vanes to keep that ratio in it's sweet spot. That's how most vgt's operate. Probably wouldn't be hard to build a controller to do that, but I'm not currently capable of it.



There are modern turbos that can function just as well as that garrett that aren't that complex. Remember, the 6.0 turbos aren't a poster child for reliability.



I don't know of any vgt turbo that is mechanically operated. Some have modified the cummins he351ve vgt, but those setups always looked jerry rigged to me.
Yeah the auber was the nicer one I saw and there are Chinese knockoffs. The cool think is the alarms that the $100+ auto meters and similar dont have.

I did a little more research on that variable and yes, it's got a solenoid that needs controlling. Maybe someday something like that, with a better vgt. I just saw one and figured in the same displacement range could be a score. I guess really the way to go is treat it like a Cummins looking for stuff like intercooler and pipe sizing and whatnot. Does anyone know if the dta 360.are all intercooed and if it bolts up? There are p pump swap kits and I do have my eye out for one but one step at a time. I don't want to make any hard plans till I've driven it and see how she works with new gearing.
I'm Really hoping to go pick her up next week. It's a 2.5 hour return drive from the place the PO has her stored. He starts and runs it up to temperature every month so. I'm hoping no issues driving it, brakewise and such. I've got tires to put on the rear that are pretty cracked.
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:15 PM   #13
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The A in DTA is for Aftercooled. Its not a true intercooler. But they do essentially the same thing.
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Old 10-31-2019, 03:20 AM   #14
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So would that be bolt up and worth it or would just getting a cummins factory or aftermarket intercooler be a better plan? Aftercooler is a water to air correct?
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Old 10-31-2019, 08:26 AM   #15
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The A in DTA is for Aftercooled. Its not a true intercooler. But they do essentially the same thing.
I am curious why you say the dta dosent use a true aftercooler? What is a true aftercooler?
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:38 AM   #16
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So would that be bolt up and worth it or would just getting a cummins factory or aftermarket intercooler be a better plan? Aftercooler is a water to air correct?
If you can find a parts donor truck with a dta360 that would probably work the best. You might be able to score the upgraded injection pump off that donor as well.

Best thing to do is stick with your idea of not making any hard plans until you see how it drives with the highway gearing. You might be surprised and get away with just turning up the pump and not have to do any hard upgrades at all.

Regarding intercooler and aftercoolers.

On certain engines(detroit 2 strokes for example) I've seen them use an air to air "intercooler" between the turbo and blower and a water to air "aftercooler" between the blower and the engine.

Because of this, some manufacturers call any cooler between the engine and charge air device an aftercooler, and any cooler between two charge air devices an intercooler.

For all intents and purposes, they do the same thing, but they just have different terminology. If you want to be completely correct, just call it a charge air cooler, I've never had anyone argue with me by calling it that.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:42 AM   #17
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I'm hoping no issues driving it, brakewise and such. I've got tires to put on the rear that are pretty cracked.
And that's the most important issue you have to take care of. Make sure it's safe and in good shape mechanically before you start worrying about highway speeds and more power.
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Old 10-31-2019, 11:48 PM   #18
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I am curious why you say the dta dosent use a true aftercooler? What is a true aftercooler?
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Image result for intercooler vs aftercoolerwww.youtube.com
They do the exact same thing. The only difference is that an intercooler cools the air before it gets to the head unit of the blower, whereas the aftercooler cools the air after it comes out of the blower instead.
That's the basic explanation.
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:17 AM   #19
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why would you want to cool the air charger before the compressor? its already going to have a slight cooling effect anyway as its under a slight vacuum from the air filter.. its compressing the air that makes it hot.. so you want to cool the air charge after you compress it so you can push more air inth te high pressure portion of the intake.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:26 PM   #20
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why would you want to cool the air charger before the compressor? its already going to have a slight cooling effect anyway as its under a slight vacuum from the air filter.. its compressing the air that makes it hot.. so you want to cool the air charge after you compress it so you can push more air inth te high pressure portion of the intake.
No, he's saying it's between the turbo and the blower/supercharger on a Detroit two stroke. For some insane reason they call a two stroke with a blower but no turbo naturaly aspirated too. So someone once upon a time was huffing brake cleaner and just decided to call things dumb names to confuse people. An inter cooler is after the compressor so it's an after cooler just the same. It really annoys me when people just change the name of something and act like they came up with something new. Like "gastro pub"!? Oh a bar with food? What a new concept. F√€|✓!π£ hipsters. First I ever heard of an aftercooler was a water to air under a roots blower on a gas engine. Water to air on a turbo was never called that as far as I know. It's still an intercooler to me.
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