1996 t444e crank no start

[Schaeale]

3 box t444e will crank like hell but not start, no smoke no sign of fuel at all. I've replaced the idm and ecm and checked every connector on the bus. The batteries are new and fully charged, I've checked every fuse. Still nothing I'm at a total lose.

[nikitis]

Have you tried silicon lubricant to start it with?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042NWOLY...roduct_details

This will help you rule out glow plugs.

It's not vandalock if it's turning over.

My 3box didn't want to start easily either and it turned out to be glow plugs were all bad. They were only $15 a piece from my mechanic, and now the bus starts on a dime.

If you spray just a little into the airbox on this then try to start it should crank right up. If it still doesn't crank and run for a second or two then something bigger is occurring. Could be the spark plugs or electrical.

If it does start and stays started, plugs and electrical are fine. It could then be glowplugs.

If it starts and doesn't stay running it's fuel not getting to the engine more than likely, and you have a fuel issue. It's not air in this case because it sucked up the silicon spray and ignited so air can get in too. Could be injectors.

If it's injectors you'll want to grab codes from the J1708 port or by doing the diagnostic code count trick to see if there's an IDM issue or Injectors themselves not delivering fuel. If the IDM or injectors show no codes, then you may have lost prime from your fuel system somehow.

Diagnostcs via button trick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXq5mOjdbbY

[Kentucky Dreaming]

it is silicone lubricant, not the silicon used in microchips and solar panels.: hide:

[nikitis]

I said that in my first sentence.

[Omnibot2000]

Have you checked the engine oil?

You need oil pressure for the injectors. Fast and easy.

Next and common issue is bad camshaft sensor for crank and no start with no smoke.

Next check is a failed IPR for crank no start with no smoke.

Assuming your IDM and ECM is good, all warning lights are illuminating on dash and pulling and retrieving blink codes, it's a good sign the ECM is working and will give you a good direction with code pulled.

[tatersalad812]

check ecm power, i have a 3 box 466e doing the same. scan tool said 9v at the ecm

[Schaeale]

code 235 vpm idm dat, verified continuity and checked resistant on the twisted pair going from vpm to ecm good. Checked grounds and voltage at both good. replaced vpm and idm no change. Huge update decided to verify the vin in ecm to bus, mismatched called international and the ecm is a 1998. according to customer this bus was running with this ecm. If I set servicemaxx to dlc v8 1998-2004 my vpm code dissapears.


This is a shot in the dark but would anyone know where a reasonably priced 94-97 ecm would be?

[Schaeale]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

Have you checked the engine oil?

You need oil pressure for the injectors. Fast and easy.

Next and common issue is bad camshaft sensor for crank and no start with no smoke.

Next check is a failed IPR for crank no start with no smoke.

Assuming your IDM and ECM is good, all warning lights are illuminating on dash and pulling and retrieving blink codes, it's a good sign the ECM is working and will give you a good direction with code pulled.

is it possible to check ipr without computer? Per my last post this is the wrong ecm. According to customer it ran with this.

[Schaeale]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

Have you checked the engine oil?

You need oil pressure for the injectors. Fast and easy.

Next and common issue is bad camshaft sensor for crank and no start with no smoke.

Next check is a failed IPR for crank no start with no smoke.

Assuming your IDM and ECM is good, all warning lights are illuminating on dash and pulling and retrieving blink codes, it's a good sign the ECM is working and will give you a good direction with code pulled.

I have 0 lights on the dash.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Schaeale

is it possible to check ipr without computer? Per my last post this is the wrong ecm. According to customer it ran with this.

You can check for resistance on the coil just to make sure it's not open. I don't have the spec. You can also check the wiring to the ECM. You really need the ECM and be hooked up to it with scanner and see how much high pressure oil your building in relation with the IPC sensor. It could also fail mechanically.

Really you need these things for the engine to start.

Working IDM, IPR, ECM, camshaft sensor. If mechanically the engine is sound and the hpop is good with good fuel delivery. It will start.....depending on temperature, need good glow plugs too.

Have you pulled the fuel filter and crank over the engine to see if the bowl fills up after draining?

After all this, your into the wire harness.

[Schaeale]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

You can check for resistance on the coil just to make sure it's not open. I don't have the spec. You can also check the wiring to the ECM. You really need the ECM and be hooked up to it and see how much high pressure oil your building in relation with the IPC sensor. It could also fail mechanically.

Really you need these things for the engine to start.

Working IDM, IPR, ECM, camshaft sensor. If mechanically the engine is sound and the hpop is good with good fuel delivery. It will start.....depending on temperature, need good glow plugs too.

Have you pulled the fuel filter and crank over the engine to see if the bowl fills up after draining?

After all this, your into the wire harness.

yes bowl fills fast,i've bled all the way to hpop and verified hpop was filling with oil.
I have my scanner hooked up but can only see parameters and the data on it, I throw errors if I try to run tests and the signal fields don't populate, this ecm was sent to a rebuild service and it tested good hardware wise.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Schaeale

yes bowl fills fast,i've bled all the way to hpop and verified hpop was filling with oil.

How are you checking to see if the hpop is filling with oil?

You have oil supplied from you low pressure oil pump. Your high pressure oil pump draws from that and fills each cylinder head by the hoses running to it. The cavity in the head supplies oil to you injectors.

Regardless, a hpop can provide oil flow but not enough pressure. However you will have drivability problems before then....unless the IPR failed abruptly.

Just on a whim.....you could unplug your valve cover harness to inspect it to see if it's burnt or smells like burnt electrical.

My buddy fried two IDM's back to back on his super duty before calling me. Turned out his valve cover gaskets shorted out in the plug as the glow plug circuit runs through the same plug with the injector wiring.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Schaeale

yes bowl fills fast,i've bled all the way to hpop and verified hpop was filling with oil.
I have my scanner hooked up but can only see parameters and the data on it, I throw errors if I try to run tests and the signal fields don't populate, this ecm was sent to a rebuild service and it tested good hardware wise.

What are you using for a scanner?

[Schaeale]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

What are you using for a scanner?

windows 11 laptop with nexiq 3 wired and servicemaxx. I checked the valve cover plugs and they look good. this bus ran and drove perfect and then wouldnt start one day. No evidence of mice corrosion or burned plugs.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Schaeale

windows 11 laptop with nexiq 3 wired and servicemaxx. I checked the valve cover plugs and they look good. this bus ran and drove perfect and then wouldnt start one day. No evidence of mice corrosion or burned plugs.

Have you changed the camshaft sensor?

With servicemaxx you should see IPR desired psi and actual psi while cranking. As well as duty cycle. If I remember, the other day my desired and actual while idling was within 20 psi of each with 17% duty cycle. From what I remember my oil pressure was around 500 psi. Really was not paying attention to it. I was looking at my coolant temps at the time

[Omnibot2000]

Also, I believe while engine is cranking service max should report an RPM. If it is not, replace the camshaft sensor. I know on the Ford's they can fail with no codes set. Not sure about international.

On the Ford's if we crank and the rpm gauge does not move.....the sensor is bad 98% of the time.

They are cheap anyway, good to hang on for a spare.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

Also, I believe while engine is cranking service max should report an RPM. If it is not, replace the camshaft sensor. I know on the Ford's they can fail with no codes set. Not sure about international.

On the Ford's if we crank and the rpm gauge does not move.....the sensor is bad 98% of the time.

They are cheap anyway, good to hang on for a spare.

it does and the book says the T444E needs to have 160 RPM before the computer will fire the injectors... thats a pretty fast crank... ive had low batteries on mine beofre where it cranked such that if it was a regular car it woulodve easily started but didnt start... till i charged the batteries and got that fast crank back.. but yes the RPM reads while cranking..


if the voltage at the diagnostic connector goes to low the nexiq will fail out and then gets re-recognized when you let off the key... has to be low enough voltage that it prob would never start and wouldnt crank too long anyway at that point.. seems like its below 8 volts or so..

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

it does and the book says the T444E needs to have 160 RPM before the computer will fire the injectors... thats a pretty fast crank... ive had low batteries on mine beofre where it cranked such that if it was a regular car it woulodve easily started but didnt start... till i charged the batteries and got that fast crank back.. but yes the RPM reads while cranking..


if the voltage at the diagnostic connector goes to low the nexiq will fail out and then gets re-recognized when you let off the key... has to be low enough voltage that it prob would never start and wouldnt crank too long anyway at that point.. seems like its below 8 volts or so..

I gotta give you credit. I give up on trying to remember specs.

Guess my mind's full and not being mindful. The lines keep blurring over

[Schaeale]

So as of right now I can't fully communicate with the ecm because of a vpm issue i believe. What should my next step be? Could this thing run with that vpm code?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Schaeale

So as of right now I can't fully communicate with the ecm because of a vpm issue i believe. What should my next step be? Could this thing run with that vpm code?

with a loss of VPM its supposed to run on the lowest spec defaults that were made... depending on year thats 160 or 175 HP.. but should still run..


Nikitis can possibly help here.. he recently went through Hell with his VPM on his 3 box system..