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Old 05-27-2024, 03:24 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Dale, TX
Posts: 40
2001 Allison 2000 Re-Assembly: Tips Wanted

Hi,


I'm getting ready to re-assemble and re-install this Allison 2000 series transmission into a 2001 International with t444e engine. The bus came with the transmission removed and partially disassembled. The prior owner had taken it to a sloppy shop in dallas than thought it had a rear main seal leak. Really, the HPOP was leaking, and oil was running into the engine valley and running to the back of the intake manifold and down the back of the engine. So the shop removed the transmission and took it apart for no reason. I have no idea if they lost parts or what all they did.


Does it look like I have all the parts? Is there anything I should look out for when reassembling? Does anyone have a manual with torque specs?


Any and all help is muchly appreciated.
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Old 05-27-2024, 03:59 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,035
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
first off it looks like that thing has been apart for awhile... rust on that planet.. its minor but still should be scotch brighted up.. we can assume that the C1/C2 drum is still intact however it looks like things are bent and very dirty..



where are the sealing rings and thrust washers? are they there?



I see the front stator support but dont see the pump...


I dont have a first gen service manual... there are definite changes from the first gen to the later units..



one thing to remember is that dirt is the number 2 killer of automatic transmissions.. (heat is number 1)..



have you verified that this is in fact the Model of transmission that was in the bus? (the wiring harnesses are intact and just hanging underneath.. the shifter on the dash says R-N-D-4-2-1. or R-N-(D)-D-2-1


at this point you are likely going to be best off hauling the parts to a shop and see if it can be freshened up and put back together.. it would be foolish not to at least do clutches,thrust bearings and seals at this point.. since its already in pieces...
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Old 05-27-2024, 04:24 PM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 384
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
My advise. Bring it to a trans.shop and get them to clean and assemble the whole thing. They will have all the little parts that are missing

2nd suggestion. Look for a good used take out

And WTF does someone disassembling a transmission have to do with a rear engine seal leak. Some people....
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Old 05-27-2024, 05:19 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,035
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnibot2000 View Post
My advise. Bring it to a trans.shop and get them to clean and assemble the whole thing. They will have all the little parts that are missing

2nd suggestion. Look for a good used take out

And WTF does someone disassembling a transmission have to do with a rear engine seal leak. Some people....

I had the thought that they took the bell off to get it out from under the bus if the bus sits low.. but no reason to take the pump stator apart and remove the separator plate.. maybe they thought they were going to rebuild it then saw how much goes into a rebuild..



just a rear seal i wouldnt even have lowered the transmission off the jack.. id have just pushed it back..
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Old 05-27-2024, 06:28 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2023
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Posts: 384
Year: 2001
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I had the thought that they took the bell off to get it out from under the bus if the bus sits low.. but no reason to take the pump stator apart and remove the separator plate.. maybe they thought they were going to rebuild it then saw how much goes into a rebuild..



just a rear seal i wouldnt even have lowered the transmission off the jack.. id have just pushed it back..
That's exactly it. Why take it apart. That drum is trash.

You wanna get it out from under a bus. Jack it up. I've easily jacked front end so the steers are flying a foot off the ground and I could have gone higher. Heck, there are ramps made to drive up on too. There are ways of doing things. Tearing down a customer's trans.for an engine oil leak is crazy.
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Old 05-27-2024, 06:48 PM   #6
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
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Year: 2010
Chassis: Bluebird Vision
Engine: Cummins 6.7 ISB Allison 2500
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I just responded to this on FB. You did much better bringing it here and will get much better help. Pretty sure it's an AT545. I see it's been suggested, look for another used transmission. I like that idea too. Then you know you have it all, and no damaged bent up parts or rusted parts. I hate doing basket cases and most transmission builders do. Literally, this is a basket case. BTW, I am still looking for those photos I mentioned I was looking for to help you out or at least give you a clue of what you're looking at. Might be enough you'll realize it's better off to find another transmission. Maybe even considering upgrading to a 2000, 2500 or MD3060. Since it's a T444e you'll already have an ECM. It'll require some retune on the PROM chip of course and adding a wiring harness. It'll take some work to do it but it'll have a worthy payoff in the end.
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Old 05-27-2024, 07:02 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooker View Post
I just responded to this on FB. You did much better bringing it here and will get much better help. Pretty sure it's an AT545. I see it's been suggested, look for another used transmission. I like that idea too. Then you know you have it all, and no damaged bent up parts or rusted parts. I hate doing basket cases and most transmission builders do. Literally, this is a basket case. BTW, I am still looking for those photos I mentioned I was looking for to help you out or at least give you a clue of what you're looking at. Might be enough you'll realize it's better off to find another transmission. Maybe even considering upgrading to a 2000, 2500 or MD3060. Since it's a T444e you'll already have an ECM. It'll require some retune on the PROM chip of course and adding a wiring harness. It'll take some work to do it but it'll have a worthy payoff in the end.

the transmission in the pics is a 1000/2000, the AT545 doesnt have a removeable Bell.. the 2000 series typically ran a deeper pan from the factory than the pickup truck allison 1000 did.



since he already has a 2000 series (presumably thats the transmission that came wit hthe bus...) then he already should have the necessary wiring harness, TCM, ECM programming and the like.. just find another early year 2000 series, bolt it up and go (its likely a 2500 PTS as that was the most common vocation model for school busses)
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Old 05-27-2024, 10:56 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
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Engine: Cummins 6.7 ISB Allison 2500
Rated Cap: ADA Lift Bus Lift Removed
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the transmission in the pics is a 1000/2000, the AT545 doesnt have a removeable Bell.. the 2000 series typically ran a deeper pan from the factory than the pickup truck allison 1000 did.



since he already has a 2000 series (presumably thats the transmission that came wit hthe bus...) then he already should have the necessary wiring harness, TCM, ECM programming and the like.. just find another early year 2000 series, bolt it up and go (its likely a 2500 PTS as that was the most common vocation model for school busses)
Ok, yeah thanks for the clarification. I shouldn't have doubted myself when I first glanced at it on FB. What took me there was the T444e and the year model since most of those I've been around are AT545 and even into 2003. So that is great news for them. In that case, I still think I'd try to find another complete transmission in working order. Though I tend to keep to many things, I'd keep this transmission too. What would be cool, is to have another like transmission that needs a build. And build these 2 together on separate tables. This way as you put the one you tore apart that's complete, you could put that other one together and match it part for part and know nothing is missing. All it takes is to miss a check ball in the valve body, or 1 thrust washer, 1 snape ring, 1 shaft seal, I mean it's very easy to skip or miss 1 little part and end up with either a trans that won't work right, or one that'll have a catastrophic failure in no time.

If OP can get a picture of his Allison Trans Tag and post a pic of it, then we'll know exactly what he has and maybe someone will have one. So now that we don't know what it is, I can stop wasting my time looking for the exploited photos I might have that breaks down each section and shows each part. Won't do a bit of good to post the wrong transmission exploits.
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Old 05-28-2024, 06:40 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,035
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooker View Post
Ok, yeah thanks for the clarification. I shouldn't have doubted myself when I first glanced at it on FB. What took me there was the T444e and the year model since most of those I've been around are AT545 and even into 2003. So that is great news for them. In that case, I still think I'd try to find another complete transmission in working order. Though I tend to keep to many things, I'd keep this transmission too. What would be cool, is to have another like transmission that needs a build. And build these 2 together on separate tables. This way as you put the one you tore apart that's complete, you could put that other one together and match it part for part and know nothing is missing. All it takes is to miss a check ball in the valve body, or 1 thrust washer, 1 snape ring, 1 shaft seal, I mean it's very easy to skip or miss 1 little part and end up with either a trans that won't work right, or one that'll have a catastrophic failure in no time.

If OP can get a picture of his Allison Trans Tag and post a pic of it, then we'll know exactly what he has and maybe someone will have one. So now that we don't know what it is, I can stop wasting my time looking for the exploited photos I might have that breaks down each section and shows each part. Won't do a bit of good to post the wrong transmission exploits.

luckily it looks like the valve body is still intact.. that said leaving one apart in a dirty environment is bad for it.. as tyou likely know some of the fluid passages are quite small.. at the very least the OP would need a jig to stand it on end and then the necessary tools to check clearances and end play... if you dont normally build transmissions you often find yourself having to buy more parts than you need to get the right thickness snap rings, spacer plates and clutches... a trans shop saves all the old steel parts that are still good and spares from kits they buy so they have every thickness ever needed..



as for the 2000 series, allison released it in mid to late year 2000, so it started showing up as available in 01 models.. though some late 00's m,ay have it...



im not sure an allison 2000 would be my first ever transmission build.. getting some of the clutch drums rigth can be tricky.. an AT545 is a nice build for a Noob, its somewhat forgiving... (probably a powerglide is the easiest but no one uses them anymore except maybe in certain classic drag race circuits).



ive never fully built a 1000/2000 on my own but have a 545 and a few 400's and 350's over the years... my biggest advice is cleanliness and patience, measuring, as you build air can be your friend, you can air check your clutch packs and piston seals...



if I get the time together my winter project will probably be to remove the AT540 from my Superior and build it over the winter since I dont drive that bus from late fall till spring. it still worlks great but i got it *REALLY* hot in the mountains in 2018 when I boiught the bus and have always wondered about it since
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Old 05-28-2024, 08:05 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 120
Year: 2010
Chassis: Bluebird Vision
Engine: Cummins 6.7 ISB Allison 2500
Rated Cap: ADA Lift Bus Lift Removed
I think a Th350 or Th400 are the easiest builds. You learn the fundamentals, there's lots of forgiveness since the only settings on the servos is either go or no go, as in either they're good or they're not. It's so so very rare that'll you'll ever find one where the end play on both output or input shafts is out of spec if you used all the same or replacment thrust washers. Only time I've ever had to switch out a selective thrust washer is when some hard parts were changed out to like upgrade to a dog bone sprag drum in place of a roller clutch drum or replacement of a damaged drum where clutches welded themselves to the drum, yes I've done one that got that hot. But for sure, not bands to set, they are hydro servos and so long as you don't go changing pins, they'll be fine. 700r4 are a bit of a PITA and so very critical on a few things because they're aren't one of the most reliable tranmissions. Ford and Dodge RWD aren't so bad once you've got your feet wet with trans building a little bit. But an AT545 isn't much different than building a Th400.

I wouldn't be afraid to take on a 2000 or 2500 if it were my own bus and I pulled it out and I unassembled it myself, but not for a basket case like this. I know enough about auto transmissions to know, all it takes is to miss one small part like a checkball, a snap rings, a shaft sealing ring, thrust washer and it could have catastrophic failure or not work at all.

This guy here, since half the pump is missing, the dirty and rusty parts, and bent up parts that'll need replaced, I think best is to find a complete 2000 that works and maybe freshen it up, or if it's low mileage, or a core and have a full rebuild on it.
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Old 06-03-2024, 08:35 AM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 313
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Where are you located? I have a low mileage perfectly running A2000 I might be willing to sell. I upgraded my bus with it. The engine is getting tired so I may part it out. Then use the engine as a core for another project.
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Old 06-03-2024, 08:54 AM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,035
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
whats wrong with the engine? lots of blowby? most "tiredness" issues I run into on the 444E are injection, HPOP, turbo related.. of course lots of blowby is the exception.. thats a bore and rebuild... the 444E Can be bored 0.020 but not much more..
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:40 AM   #13
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
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Year: 1999
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Engine: T444E
Yes, it has some blowby. It runs well and has power normally, even with the blowby. Right now though it has a second issue I haven’t really dug into yet where it is lacking power and running rough. I may try to figure out as a learning adventure. I suspect it’s a sensor or something related. I need to hook up my laptop. Also, if it sits for a few weeks it gets difficult to start, even when running well. So multiple issues and I don’t trust it to take trips in. I suspect some thing in the heui system, injectors or lpop etc.
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Old 06-03-2024, 12:31 PM   #14
Bus Geek
 
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
Yes, it has some blowby. It runs well and has power normally, even with the blowby. Right now though it has a second issue I havenít really dug into yet where it is lacking power and running rough. I may try to figure out as a learning adventure. I suspect itís a sensor or something related. I need to hook up my laptop. Also, if it sits for a few weeks it gets difficult to start, even when running well. So multiple issues and I donít trust it to take trips in. I suspect some thing in the heui system, injectors or lpop etc.

dont leave out fuel... the mechanical fuel pumps do go bad... ive also seen a cracked fuel line or poor seal at the inlet of that pump allow it to suck air and cause air in the fuel lines which will end up in erratic behaviour despite the HPOP data looking normal. fuel PSI is not a parameter read by the ECM so you cant read it and wont get any codes set as a result.
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Old 06-03-2024, 11:52 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Dale, TX
Posts: 40
Thank you all for the replies. You gave me a lot to think about.


After further thought, I think I'm better off just putting in a good used transmission. If I do, and it's also our of a bus, do I have to do anything to the computer? Re-flash or something?
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Old 06-03-2024, 11:54 PM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
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I'm in central Texas. where are you?
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Old 06-04-2024, 06:30 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 313
Year: 1999
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Engine: T444E
East TN

We're pretty far apart. East TN.

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Originally Posted by wanderingturtl View Post
I'm in central Texas. where are you?
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Old 06-04-2024, 06:32 AM   #18
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
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Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Christopher, I did check pressure both idling and driving by connecting to the shrader valve on the fuel bowl. 60 psi was maintained. Good thought though. Appreciate it. When I finally get it started and get some gauges read, I will post on a new thread.
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Old 06-05-2024, 08:41 AM   #19
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Are these compatible?
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