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Old 11-11-2022, 01:45 AM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Delaware
Posts: 102
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International S1853
Engine: International DT360 5.9ltr Spicer 5 speed
Rated Cap: #26,500
2002 3000re No wait to start, no crank

I have a 3000re with a t444e that ran great. I've had it a couple years and it's always had a little battery draw that drains the batteries after a week or two of sitting. I'm finally getting around to fixing the 2 little issues it has(icp sensor and a leaking safety valve on the air tank)and selling it, so I decided to try to find the draw. I noticed there is a separate heavy gauge red wire connected to the lug on the second battery where the main parallel jumper connects from the main power wire. I disconnected it thinking it was an add on of some sort from the previous owners to see if that was related to the draw. I completely forgot and next time I went to start it I got no wait to start then it wouldn't crank at all. When the key is turned to "start" a "water in fuel" light comes on, DRL turns of and I can hear the power solenoid under the window click. I've reconnected (and cleaned all the connections) checked that 40a fuse. Checked ever fuse I can find, swapped relays around and no change. From what I've read there is no power to the ecm, which would activate the glow and the crank relays. I just found a starter type solenoid tonight on the driver's side valve cover
in the engine compartment near the ecm, I had been only messing around on the passenger side where the fuse and relay panel are. This solenoid looks like it could very possibly be the one for the glow and ecm right there on the valve cover. I have power at the main lug, but not at the small activation lug. I didn't have an assistant to turn the key to listen for clicking there. Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something stupid or hidden? I've read a couple things about a hidden ecm relay but what was described doesn't match up to my bus. Could I have fried the ecm with a back feed trying to start it with that wire disconnected(assuming it's the separate main to the ecm)? Does anyone know what HSR CR CLR relays are for or have this diagram possibly? I've done a ton of searching with out any luck for that diagram and havent found a clear answer on which/where the ecm relay is.
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Old 11-11-2022, 08:08 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,532
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
that bottom section with relays is for your air-conditioner (likely a carrier system)..

HSR is high indoor fan speed
CR / CLR are compressor and condensor relays..

nothing there should inhibit the ECM..


my ECM also has its own reference ground wire going to the batteries as well and wont operate if that white wire isnt hooked up..
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Old 11-11-2022, 02:10 PM   #3
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Delaware
Posts: 102
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International S1853
Engine: International DT360 5.9ltr Spicer 5 speed
Rated Cap: #26,500
Oh that's good to know. It's got dual carriers in it.

I don't have a pic right now but there is a whole other fuse and relay setup in the engine room as well with the data link, service key and switch. I checked all those fuses and swapped relays around there too. Do you think I could have roasted the ecm trying to start it with that power wire off? I read that there is a fuse inside of the ecm too, ever cracked one open? Do you know what I'm talking about referring to the "hidden ECM fuse/relay"? I think you may have commented on that thread I read it in . Of course it's raining today so I don't really feel like screwing with it.
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Old 12-08-2022, 07:15 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Miami, Fl.
Posts: 1,117
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
I have a 3000re with a t444e that ran great. I've had it a couple years and it's always had a little battery draw that drains the batteries after a week or two of sitting. I'm finally getting around to fixing the 2 little issues it has(icp sensor and a leaking safety valve on the air tank)and selling it, so I decided to try to find the draw. I noticed there is a separate heavy gauge red wire connected to the lug on the second battery where the main parallel jumper connects from the main power wire. I disconnected it thinking it was an add on of some sort from the previous owners to see if that was related to the draw. I completely forgot and next time I went to start it I got no wait to start then it wouldn't crank at all. When the key is turned to "start" a "water in fuel" light comes on, DRL turns of and I can hear the power solenoid under the window click. I've reconnected (and cleaned all the connections) checked that 40a fuse. Checked ever fuse I can find, swapped relays around and no change. From what I've read there is no power to the ecm, which would activate the glow and the crank relays. I just found a starter type solenoid tonight on the driver's side valve cover
in the engine compartment near the ecm, I had been only messing around on the passenger side where the fuse and relay panel are. This solenoid looks like it could very possibly be the one for the glow and ecm right there on the valve cover. I have power at the main lug, but not at the small activation lug. I didn't have an assistant to turn the key to listen for clicking there. Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something stupid or hidden? I've read a couple things about a hidden ecm relay but what was described doesn't match up to my bus. Could I have fried the ecm with a back feed trying to start it with that wire disconnected(assuming it's the separate main to the ecm)? Does anyone know what HSR CR CLR relays are for or have this diagram possibly? I've done a ton of searching with out any luck for that diagram and havent found a clear answer on which/where the ecm relay is.
What 40amp fuse are you talking about? Where is it located ?

Your user profile shows a different type bus, so it is a bit confusing…are you talking about a different bus ?

An RE bus???

What tranny does this bus have ?

Also, please, please consider writing in paragraphs instead of one long rant…

Is your bus an Amtran, if so, in the battery box there is a fuse for the ecu.

The box in the rear engine compartment, might be the VIM for the tranny.
If so, does that box have a switch on the face of it?

Is the switch set for front or rear start ?
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Old 12-08-2022, 07:19 PM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Miami, Fl.
Posts: 1,117
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Oh that's good to know. It's got dual carriers in it.

I don't have a pic right now but there is a whole other fuse and relay setup in the engine room as well with the data link, service key and switch. I checked all those fuses and swapped relays around there too. Do you think I could have roasted the ecm trying to start it with that power wire off? I read that there is a fuse inside of the ecm too, ever cracked one open? Do you know what I'm talking about referring to the "hidden ECM fuse/relay"? I think you may have commented on that thread I read it in . Of course it's raining today so I don't really feel like screwing with it.
This box is you VIM. The relays in it control tranny functions and the switch is for front and rear start.

I am not saying this is your problem but another member here found a burnt diode in this wiring that controls front/rear switching.

Carfefully look at the connector tors inside this box and you should find one that has 2 diodes in it.

Again, not saying this is your problem but… worth taking a look at and verifying that the diodes are good.
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