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Old 02-19-2022, 10:39 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Year: 2007
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Chassis: CE300
Engine: DT466
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2006 DT466 Turbo Kazoo

I know next to nothing about turbos controls. What I am writing is only an assumption of what the problems I am experience might be or how I can relate to them.

This problem is intermittent. It can be fine for 100’s of miles and then appear - then disappear.

About 1000 miles ago I installed an EGT as I reprogrammed the ECM and wanted a better understanding of the baseline temps.

Normally, I can go over a pass such as the Tecahepi’s or other significant pass without a problem. Towing a 5k lbs Jeep, I can cruise up the pass at between 55-65 without an issue. Occasionally it will downshift to 4th gear. Normally going up over the pass the EGT runs about 900°. When downshifting it goes up to 1000-1100°

The other times, on a slight grade - almost flat, I can’t push 50mph without the EGT getting to 1250° - and without any power.

Today this happened. The CEL came on, the temps were high, I kept off the accelerator to keep them down. Then at a stop light, I gave it full throttle, the turbo wound up and then sounded like a kazoo briefly and then “popped”. All of a sudden, I had full power and ran another 300 miles over high passes without the EGT going above 900°

What I imagine is the following:
Something is sticking and causing the turbo from rotating, causing back pressure and high EGT temps. Then it frees up and the turbo spins up and works fine.

I don’t know what the “something” might be.

So… looking for ideas of what it might be. I’m also looking to be educated in how turbos operate - I understand the basics, I’m looking for turbo control knowledge.

TIA

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Old 02-20-2022, 07:11 AM   #2
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in 2006 you have a VGT or Variable geometry turbo.. it is a known issue that the actuator can stick (this will trip the CEL and run your EGT temps high)..



essentially a VGT turbo acts like a big and small turbo both.. if the actuator sticks in one position.. esp closed you get lots of backpressure, not much boost and EGT off the scale.



sometimes the sticking is due to wear / dirt on the vanes themselves, but also the actuator itself is known to be a failure point.
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Old 02-20-2022, 03:14 PM   #3
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Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
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Kazoo

I wonder if there is a plastic bag inside the charge cooler? Think of a vibrating membrane, like the reed in a kazoo. Alternatively, what about the inside of a rubber boot delaminating. A rubber check valve of sorts…. I have seen this sort of thing in large water pipes- think golf course irrigation system, brake hoses, engine coolant hoses, and turbo systems .

Does not happen often. In the hundreds of cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, and air planes, I have seen this sort of thing three times. Might have been four. That is over a span of about 40 years.

Two gages. One that shows intake manifold pressure and one for exhaust manifold pressure. This will help show problems related to turbo. If you have one pressure gage on the intake and one right after the turbo compressor you can then see if you have problems..


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Old 02-21-2022, 06:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
in 2006 you have a VGT or Variable geometry turbo.. it is a known issue that the actuator can stick (this will trip the CEL and run your EGT temps high)..



essentially a VGT turbo acts like a big and small turbo both.. if the actuator sticks in one position.. esp closed you get lots of backpressure, not much boost and EGT off the scale.



sometimes the sticking is due to wear / dirt on the vanes themselves, but also the actuator itself is known to be a failure point.

Thanks CK - this is the information I was looking for - confirmation I'm not too far out of whack. With your input, I drove another 400 miles home and was able to get it "unstuck" by putting it in neutral and giving it full throttle once or twice.

I can now both hear and feel when it's stuck - the turbo whine is not there, and it's a slug. I look at the EGT when either one happens and it's usually around 1250F.

Now the question is: is it better to get a new turbo (>$2100) or get a rebuilt one? (~$1K). Since this is a "known" problem, seems like a new one would be best, but that's a lot of $$.

Thanks again...
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Old 02-22-2022, 10:04 AM   #5
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CK is right, most likely a vgt turbo issue.

Before turbo replacement, see if you can find someone local to do an engine/emissions cleaning service on it. I've gotten some unstuck by doing that saving the customer quite a bit of coin in the process.

Rebuilt turbos can be okay, but parts as of late seem to have pretty spotty reliability, so make sure whatever you go with has a good warranty on it.

On the fleets we maintain, we do a emission cleaning service every 30k miles or yearly, and it cuts down on a lot of emission system part failures.
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Old 02-22-2022, 10:30 AM   #6
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Thank you for the input. Unfortunately, the local shop doesn't like to work on bus conversions and they charge $180/hr. They are fairly dishonest as well.

There are others in the area but when they see the bus drive up they say they don't work on busses. I still have an issue where the dealer said they could do something and they messed it up more. Now I have to live with it because I disputed the charges on my CC and I have been flagged. Sigh...

I don't mind doing the work myself, if you could point me to some decent resources for ES cleaning, I'd appreciate it - I will also perform the standard google searches as well.

Too bad on the rebuilt quality, seems like a fairly affordable way to resolve the issue. One warranty I read was 1yr - but you have to send it back to them, they will send it to the manufacturer and you might or might not get a favorable response in 90 days - and you won't get the core back.

Do you have any experiences with reman vendors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
CK is right, most likely a vgt turbo issue.

Before turbo replacement, see if you can find someone local to do an engine/emissions cleaning service on it. I've gotten some unstuck by doing that saving the customer quite a bit of coin in the process.

Rebuilt turbos can be okay, but parts as of late seem to have pretty spotty reliability, so make sure whatever you go with has a good warranty on it.

On the fleets we maintain, we do a emission cleaning service every 30k miles or yearly, and it cuts down on a lot of emission system part failures.
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Old 02-22-2022, 05:31 PM   #7
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Watch Wes Work on YouTube made a pilgrimage to these folks operation, and they have been in business in 1973 or so. Another YouTuber -- Western Truck and Tractor repair has used their reman turbos, and was happy. They do LOT's of injector pumps and turbos.

https://shop.areadieselservice.com/
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Old 02-23-2022, 07:51 AM   #8
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This is the system we have.


No recommendations on remans. We used to work with a local diesel shop a lot on that stuff, but they screwed us on the warranty on a reman turbo for a duramax, and we haven't been back.

Now we pretty much stick with dealer parts for fuel pumps, injectors and turbochargers anymore. Unless it's directly from a big name like honeywell/garrett, holset, borgwarner, etc. Rebuilders just don't seem to get it right anymore.

I can't afford comebacks for warranty stuff, so we go with what's most reliable.
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:31 AM   #9
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Ok. I used to own a 2007 Ford F-250 with the VGT turbo and mostly it would carbon up from non-exercise of the exhaust turbo vanes. I would take off the turbo and remove the exhaust housing, either sand blast the housing, vanes, and using never seize, lube up the vanes and reassemble the turbo. I only had to do this twice, before I realized that about once per month, I needed to go out somewhere and from a stop, floor the truck and let it run through the gears. This would fully flex the vanes and keep the carbon from seizing them. I quit having issues.
For help, Search VGT TURBO on Youtube and you will find many videos on how to take it apart, clean it, inspect it, index it, and reassemble it.
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:36 AM   #10
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Chassis: 3800
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 25,500lbs, 59 passenger
I also purchased a rebuilt kit off eBay. It was a bronze bearing kit and I rebuilt the whole turbo. It was cheap and easy to do. I do not remember having to use any special tools other than snap ring pliers and my sandblaster (you can purchase a cheap gun type from harbor freight that will do the job and find a large clear plastic bag, then place the sandblaster and parts under the plastic bag and blast away, just use safety glasses, a full face shield, thick long sleeve shirt, and heavy leather gloves.
*
Make sure as you take the old bearings out, you really look at how they come out because you can install them backwards, which will cause them to block oil from being directed properly.

Here is a link to the kit I used.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17441647929...IAAOSwTVtfTYNY
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:42 AM   #11
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I never trusted myself with turbos. one wrong move and I nuke my engine so I always have sent them off to a turbo shop to be worked.
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Old 03-01-2022, 06:58 AM   #12
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Chassis: 3800
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 25,500lbs, 59 passenger
I understand. I spent my first career as a professional auto technician, then another 14 years as a Gas Pipeline maintenance technician on some slow-speed recip units, all with turbos almost as big as the bus. I understand a lot of folks do not understand how to address these.
Funny to me, is how did I end up as a Software Administrator for this gas pipeline? I think they tricked me.
I really miss being a technician, but the pay is so much better. So, I bought a bus and started working on it.
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Old 03-09-2022, 12:57 PM   #13
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Engine: DT 466E EGR, 3000PTS
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the VGT system is known to get carbon buildup and stick. This can be serviced and the bearings replaced for the VGT system. It's a fairly simple operation but requires removing the turbo to do it. If you are used to turning wrenches it's not that difficult to do, it's just time consuming and the parts are heavy to get out of the engine compartment. Joe's bus barn on youtube covers this procedure. https://youtu.be/bvnR27-LYVo
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