2006 DT466E Rebuild

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by magnakansas

This is what a friend of mine calls "steppin over dollars to pick up pennies"

after welding/brazing is the cover warped from uneven cooling. are there going to be, stresses from cooling of the weld that are going to add enough tension/pressure that the cover cracks.

Is the new cover a redesign or different design that works to solve this problem.

I would jump on a new cover if the cover was $200-$300.

If the cover was $1000 then I would think about welding.... also, if the cover has very much zinc in the casting, I would not consider it weldable.... Do you have any input from other people that have successfully welded a cover.

nice job working on the rebuild.

william

I keep thinking alot about potential warping, yes indeed but I think that it won't be too much of a problem. the zinc issue...that does concern me but looking at some quick google internet postings on the front cover, it's not cheap! I've found prices from $600+ !

I got a friend who has a DT also with milkshake oil that is considering on just trashing that motor so I will just wait a few days to see what he does with it.

Man, I hope he trashes it !

[ewo1]

Sandblasting external parts for future paint/powder coating.

[flattracker]

I would replace the timing cover instead of repair it. After seeing the bearing insert in your picture, I would have the crankshaft done (reground) also. Never cheap out on a rebuild. The extra dollars you spend now will be many extra miles on the road later. I would look at a re-core of your radiator also. Something caused the substantial overheating in that engine.
Your work looks good so far though.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by flattracker

I would replace the timing cover instead of repair it. After seeing the bearing insert in your picture, I would have the crankshaft done (reground) also. Never cheap out on a rebuild. The extra dollars you spend now will be many extra miles on the road later. I would look at a re-core of your radiator also. Something caused the substantial overheating in that engine.
Your work looks good so far though.

I would replace the timing cover instead of repair it. After seeing the bearing insert in your picture, I would have the crankshaft done (reground) also.

I have said it before, I am by no means a qualified mechanic but I still get the job done.

Your observation of the bearing insert… I have no idea…. But I’m gonna give it the attention you suggest. It’s always good to have an open mind if you want to learn and that’s how I got to where I am today so, thanks for the suggestion!

Seriously… THANKS!

The crank is coming down for inspection and new bearings too but I am planning to do this one step at a time versus all at once. The head is at the shop, let’s see what the results are then the crank and cam are next.

Once they are done I’ll go ahead and get a full rebuild kit.

The bearing insert…. What is it that I should be looking at?

[ewo1]

So the engine has finallY been rebuilt and to my surprise, 6 gear is UNLOCKED !

Taking a look at the build sheet, it was ordered/built this way!!!

Purrs like an angry kitten !

[Diverdude0075]

Congrats! What was the total cost of you don’t mind sharing? Any unexpected issues along the way?

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by Diverdude0075

Congrats! What was the total cost of you don’t mind sharing? Any unexpected issues along the way?

So I apologize for never getting back to you on your question but the cost for the inframe, parts only (in-frame kit, injectors, front cover, 2 thermostats, oil pump kit, machine shop) was right around 6 grand.
I did have to replace all 6 injectors with rebuilt ones as the ones in the motor, the tips were rusted real bad.

I got a super deal on the labor.... I had gotten my hands on a '99 Thomas RE bus with a non running 5.9 cummins with a 545 tranny for $500 bucks. The bus was a non runner because all it would barely due was idle, pedal was dead!

I chased the problem as a bad VP44 pump so I replaced the lift pump and also rebuilt the fuel pump. along with new filters cost was around $1900, but it still had the dead pedal!

So I was into it for $2400 bucks.

I had rented some warehouse space to a diesel truck mechanic and he fell in love with the bus so...I traded the bus for the labor on the inframe!

What a sweet deal!

He was able to fix the dead pedal by replacing the ECU and lucky him, he already had one laying around! So he got a great running bus for which I believe he turned into a mobile mechanic shop!

The bus had A/c and also had a full, side to side underbelly compartment!




Pics of the new engine...and for those who need serpentine belt part number!

Aligning the A/C compressors was a real pain in the a$$, must be perfect or belt WILL jump off!

[ewo1]

DeMac,

Got your PM.

Yes I still have the bus, thanks for asking. It is running great!

Drove almost 1,500 miles from Miami to Texas, pulling my toad, without a hiccup!

I just recently started working on it again, fixing the stairwell and entry door.
after that I am removing the windows, adding sheetmetal to the sides. I'm not gonna do each window individually, going to use 10' long 16 ga. panels and then add in some RV windows.

Thanks for reaching out and asking!

[ewo1]

I was trying to hit the road back to Florida before xmas and gremlins just keep getting in my way!

Before hitting the road went thru all the fluids, safety checks and decided to do a short highway speed test ride...boy am I glad I did!

First episode-
The EGR coolant return line that goes to the back of the head...O-ring decided to spring a leak. Not a difficult fix as I was able to do it from the inside of the bus. Take off center cover and drill a 4 inch hole on the back wall so I could get my hands/tools in there. Covered the hole back up with a 6x6 sheet metal cover. Now I have an access hole for the future!

Next day ready to roll....NAH...gremlins came back!
This time it was the o-ring on the block fitting for the steel braided high pressure oil hose.
Lost about a gallon of oil on that episode and now the engine is an oily mess!

Ok, next day, today....Bus won't start in the cold weather.
It's about 45 degrees here this morning, she'll spin normal speed, cough but won't start.

Grid heaters are working fine, HOT to the touch!
Oil level is fine so not a low oil pressure level issue.

Batteries fully charged, 13.2 volts each.

Fuel level, full tank. I went to push the primer just in case, no issues, it was rock hard, no air.

She starts on the dime, flawlessly, no slow crank in 60 degree and above weather.

So I am at a lost at what I should be looking at.

Is there an ambient temp sensor that would affect starting in the cold?

Motor is a fresh rebuild, only 1,500 miles since in-frame.

At least I am happy that these issues are occurring now and not out on the road!

[ewo1]

ok, 2 hours later, outside temp 48 degrees, she started!

Any thoughts?

[nikitis]

Could it be flooded? Might of flooded when first trying to crank due to sitting and being cold. Came back later after it dissolves away.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by nikitis

Could it be flooded? Might of flooded when first trying to crank due to sitting and being cold. Came back later after it dissolves away.

Idk, maybe.

New episode, 10 miles out in a test drive and just blew the air compressor coolant hose.

Stuck on the road but still close to home!

Sure super glad i’m doing these test runs !

[Diverdude0075]

Glow plugs new and gpr? You could test your glow plugs too.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Diverdude0075

Glow plugs new and gpr? You could test your glow plugs too.

no glowplugs on a DT466, they have inmtake heaters on the 466E..



if theres no evidence of heavy blowby when its running then we know its got good compression..


try giving it some pedal when starting.. the 466E may or may not respond to that.. i know my DT360 mechanical does and likes the extra juice to fire if its really cold..



my T444E also responds to some pedal in really cold weather...


lift pump pressure? it would stay primed but may not build full pressure at slow crank speed?



only other thought would be if HPOP cant build full pressure at cranking speed due to wearing HPOP or thick oil not flowing well into the system..



you should be able to watch the IPR duty cycle, as well as desired and actual HPOP while cranking to see if its making pressure..



one of the reasons i installed a diesel Coolant heater instead of an air heater is i can preheat the engine (as well as keep the interior warm).. it it so much easier on the engine to start it when warm

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

no glowplugs on a DT466, they have inmtake heaters on the 466E..



if theres no evidence of heavy blowby when its running then we know its got good compression..


try giving it some pedal when starting.. the 466E may or may not respond to that.. i know my DT360 mechanical does and likes the extra juice to fire if its really cold..



my T444E also responds to some pedal in really cold weather...


lift pump pressure? it would stay primed but may not build full pressure at slow crank speed?



only other thought would be if HPOP cant build full pressure at cranking speed due to wearing HPOP or thick oil not flowing well into the system..



you should be able to watch the IPR duty cycle, as well as desired and actual HPOP while cranking to see if its making pressure..



one of the reasons i installed a diesel Coolant heater instead of an air heater is i can preheat the engine (as well as keep the interior warm).. it it so much easier on the engine to start it when warm

I like the idea of a diesel coolant heater!
I still have my stock heaters but they are not hooked up to the engine right now, it is bypassed.
How is a coolant heater plumbed?

Also, how do I look at the IPR duty cycle, with Servicemaxx?

givinr it some pedal when cranking does nothing, I have tried!

The HPOP...good question. Oil is clean when looked on the dipstick, I'm using rotella 15w.40 oil, filters are still new, only 1500 miles on them.
I also replaced the engine oil pump internals when we did the in-frame. 60psi at idle, solid 50 psi when I rev it up.

No blow by visible but, I previously did have a high pressure oil leak that I just took care of.

I spent some time in the diagnostic manual and did come across a small blip of info.

(IAT) AIR INTAKE TEMP sensor.
the manual says the ECM monitors the IAT signal to control timing & fuel rate during cold starts.

I wonder how critical this component is in cold weather?

Since the air box and everything else was removed during the in-frame, I'm gonna take a look see if it is even hooked up. should be since I have no codes but then again maybe it's still thinks it's in south Florida where it don't get cold but 1 or 2 nights a year!

I'm gonna look up and learn how to check lift pump pressure just so I know how to do it...

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

Seeing as though you have lot rot on the hoses consider you might have an air leak in some return/draw circuit allowing a fuel drain back.

Follow the trend..... seems to be a lot of stuff was left loose, weathered or improperly sealed.

If a suction or return fuel line cracked, or was left loose, you could have intermittent start issues till you seal the system up. Cold fuel sucks harder up the straw, higher head vacuum @ transfer pump = higher probability a slight leak is air-drawing, etc.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by Tin Roadtube Vagrant

Seeing as though you have lot rot on the hoses consider you might have an air leak in some return/draw circuit allowing a fuel drain back.

Follow the trend..... seems to be a lot of stuff was left loose, weathered or improperly sealed.

If a suction or return fuel line cracked, or was left loose, you could have intermittent start issues till you seal the system up. Cold fuel sucks harder up the straw, higher head vacuum @ transfer pump = higher probability a slight leak is air-drawing, etc.

Actually the only rotted hose was the coolant feed line to the air compressor. That SHOULD have been replaced when we did the in-frame, I agree.
All the other engine hoses look good, stiff and not swollen!

The o-ring for the EGR return tube was installed incorrectly, did not use lube. Upon inspection a portion of the o-ring was not seated properly, pinched and that is why it eventually failed.

The o-ring on the high pressure line, I suspect it was not replaced and damaged further upon install which is why it eventually failed.

The bus underneath is super clean, no rust and very little accumulated dirt.
It was a special needs/wheelchair bus that lived it's whole life in sunny, salt free roads, south Florida.

That being said, I will inspect the fuel line hoses as you suggest since it is good advice, thanks!

Went to the stealer this morning and ordered a new IAT sensor. It wasn't cheap, $160 bucks! Better than paying $175 an hour for labor and then having them tell me they need to replace the sensor anyway!

For those interested the part number for the sensor is 302N/1836539C91.
the part comes in tomorrow and I'll see if it starts in the next cold morning after.

I also priced some sensors so I can have for spare parts while on the road, GEEZ I need to win the lotto!

ICP-$417
IPR-$557
Cam- $214
Crank-$214

Any advice on GOOD aftermarket parts that work?

The Stealer also sells after market but does not stock them, have to order.

Aftermarket prices
ICP-$143
IPR- no source
Cam-$23
Crank-$33

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

one of the reasons i installed a diesel Coolant heater instead of an air heater is i can preheat the engine (as well as keep the interior warm).. it it so much easier on the engine to start it when warm

Is this the one you installed on your bus?

https://www.deshiye.com/470.html

Saw the info in another thread....

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Is this the one you installed on your bus?

https://www.deshiye.com/470.html

Saw the info in another thread....

this is the one i used.


https://www.deshiye.com/liquid-parki...w-12v-24v.html


their included water pumps seemed to be crap so I installed a davies craig pump... they claimed a couplke years ago they were changing pumps..



the first link you sent i have one in the box new but havent used it.. I figured if my current one gave me any trouble thats the one id install as it has a different ignition system.. my biggest issue was solkid ground.. these heaters like a near perfect ground..



I need to draw a diagram of how I piped mine in so i can heat the engine plus cabin or just the cabin only and not the engine..



if you dont plan to travel anywhere super cold, a 5kw unit might do you fine.. me being in ohio and seemingly i end up going to cold places at times in winter wanted the 16kw.. my bus isnt insualted.. its all stock windows roof, etc..and I want it at least 75 inside if not warmer when im using it as a mobile office


to me the first link you posted may be a better design, however ive never fired that one up to try it... its still new in its box in my garage (like a lot of stuff LOL)..



I have a 5kw unit in my little red bus and it heats the engine up well as a preheat.. and if im sitting in the bus it will keep me warm up front with one heater fan on down to about 20-25 or so.. if the bus were insulated with foam and such it woulkd do even better..




for looking at things in servicemaxx.. there should be headings across the top when you are running the engine.. you can click the tab for "pressures" and see the HPOP.. yoiu can also set watched parameters that will show up on a "trip" screen.. I have recorded doing something like driving or trying to start etc and then played back the values to see what things looked like..



the IAT definitely could be an issue.. you should be able to see its value to see what it reads..so if overnight it somewhat close to the outside air temp (and the coolant temp) you can gert a good idea that the sensor is working.. if it reads after the intake heaters you will be able to see if the heaters are truly warming the air..

[Omnibot2000]

If it does not want to start, pre heat works, good compression, fuel delivery is good, timing signals good and no check engine lights.....I would lean onto the HPOP oil circuit.

Use scanner and check your HPOP pressure while cranking. 500psi comes to my mind, can't remember if that is the exact spec or the even number I wanna see as it's easy to remember. Anything below that is a no start condition generally.

You want to compare your desired pressure, actual pressure and duty cycle of the IPR.

If it's low pressure when cold I have replaced the IPR. 1st step for me anyway. I had a good used one as a spare for testing. If no start after that, front cover leak/supply to the HPOP. Either a bad seal or cracked front cover will cause no start cold conditions. You can also check the HPOP reservoir to see if oil is draining back/empty after it sits for a while.

Low oil pressure from HPOP while hot no start is a leaking injector oil circuit after the HPOP. While the oil is thin it leaks faster. Many times we allow it to sit for a few hours or over night and will fire back up. Oil thickens and is able to create the pressure needed for the injectors to start.....

Very least.....see what your pressures are on the HPOP while cranking.

I don't know of the IAT making that big of a difference for the starting issue that you are experiencing. Hope I am wrong. The will not start when cold but ambient temp warms up and it does start points to the grid heater but if you say that's good then.........

Guessing you have grid heated it lets say 2 or 3 times and then try cranking? I know in the great white north we would cycle the grid heater 3 times before attempting to start if we had a well worn engine if it drops below -20c.