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Old 08-31-2021, 09:08 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: t444e
2009 Maxxforce DT

Hey guys so i've been reading up on the maxxforces recently and i know that none of them are great. The reason i'm making this thread is because i have the option to buy a 2010 CE300 IC bus with a 2009 model year Maxxforce DT engine in it. The place that has the bus forsale is 5 minutes from my house which is why i'm still considering the bus. So heres the big question...how bad are the 2009 maxxforce DT engines? Any bus mechanics that can chime in here? I heard that the 2010 model year maxxforce DT was worse, is that true? Whats the difference between a 2009 & a 2010? Did they have to meet a new EPA standard in 2010? I believe this bus has 2 egr coolers, both of which looked to have been replaced recently. I'm aware that there's a company that makes "bulletproof" replacement coolers for these MF engines and that theres a company that sells software to allow you to disconnect the egr system. Let me add this, i don't plan on driving the bus much and it's mostly just going to be a home for me and my girlfriend. So the bus is primarily going to sit and occasionally we would take it on a trip maybe once a year. I'm fairly mechanical inclined when it comes to fixing things but i don't have any software (or knowledge of the software) to read codes or diagnose any issues. I'm not sure how hard that software is to get.

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Old 09-01-2021, 12:15 AM   #2
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Location: Auburn, WA
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Year: 2000
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Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
Hi. There may be more to your story than you've shared, yet from what you wrote I think you would be better going a different direction.

My first inclination is why are you buying such a new bus that has an engine that is questionable in the first place, yet when I saw you are not going to be driving it but maybe once a year, I really saw red flags go up.

Mechanical things don't like to sit. They are meant to moved and be used. Even if you still use it as a home, please run it and drive it regularly to keep all the parts lubed.

If making the bus a home is your main focus, an older bus will do just as well as a newer one, and for a lot less money. Personally, I'm advising people to steer away from school buses and look at other types of buses. Government buses are the same as a school bus, just without all the "school" safety and electrical issues. Over the road transit buses are cool for their storage areas, unless you're planning on going off paved roads (low riders).

Since you're not planning on driving much, an older all mechanical engine and tranny might serve you well. Since it's going to be your home, the less you pay for "new" and "electronics" the more you can put into the "home" part.

Just some thoughts for your consideration.
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Old 09-01-2021, 01:12 AM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,028
Year: 2007
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Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
Exactly what he^ just said. If something is going to sit all year and then you expect to take It out for a cruise youíre going to have issues, mechanical things need to run. The exception being old Detroit sh*t, apparently Ross can revive the dead
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1 View Post
Exactly what he^ just said. If something is going to sit all year and then you expect to take It out for a cruise youíre going to have issues, mechanical things need to run. The exception being old Detroit sh*t, apparently Ross can revive the dead
Okay, this made me snort coffee out my nose this morning...

It's a testament to the old 2-stroke Detroits that they just want to run. But even with those, if you let them sit for long the injectors can gum up and stick. If one's sat for more than a few months...maybe 6 months is a good guide?...it's wise to remove the valve cover/s and make sure the injector rack moves freely. A stuck injector keeping the older-style rigid rack wide open can cause a runaway self-destructive event.

I followed Simplicity's gremlin hunt pretty closely and he's now in the position where he knows so much more about his bus that he's in great shape to handle the next electrical "adventure." But it's exactly this complexity which drives my love for the older mechanical diesels.
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Old 09-04-2021, 06:21 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 35
Yes, there was a anew emissions standard that took effect in 2010. If you got a 2009 MxF DT it would have just 1 eng module - an ecm. If you got an EPA 2010 MxF DT it would have 2 eng modules - and ecm and a dcu (doser control unit). From 2006-present international engines you would need Navistar Engine Diagnostics software (roughly $600/yr subscription fee). If you go with per maxxforce eng (2007 & earlier), you can get free software from Navistar called servicemaxx 1708 from Navistar to diagnose the engine. If you buy an older pre-get eng you get more reliability and less complexity. I personally thin the best international electronic eng is the 1998-2003 as it is pre-Egr and only has 1 eng module (cheap to replace). I would stay away from international’s 1st electronic eng (1994-nov 1997) as they had 3 eng modules which can only be refurbed - you cannot by replacements (xcept on eBay). If someone steels one of your 1994-1997 eng modules you’re screwed. A lot of older mechanical engines are good options too.
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Old 09-04-2021, 09:27 PM   #6
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Aside from all the drive train, the bus is from Ct. I grew up there, cars were trash after 10 years from rusting out. Ct. is near the top of the list of states to avoid, Seems strange that the most valuable buses we bought were at least 15 years old before retired. Retiring them after 10 tells you something.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:39 AM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: t444e
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Aside from all the drive train, the bus is from Ct. I grew up there, cars were trash after 10 years from rusting out. Ct. is near the top of the list of states to avoid, Seems strange that the most valuable buses we bought were at least 15 years old before retired. Retiring them after 10 tells you something.
I ended up buying a 2000 3800 with a dt444e. This bus is also from CT but i have a sandblaster and had no issue sandblasting the floor inside and underneath. So thats what i did, i just finished up last week. I had to patch the floor in areas but overall i'm glad i bought this one over the other one i was looking at.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:40 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: t444e
Thank you all for the advice. I ended up going with an older bus with the 7.3L
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:59 AM   #9
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by More Power View Post
Yes, there was a anew emissions standard that took effect in 2010. If you got a 2009 MxF DT it would have just 1 eng module - an ecm. If you got an EPA 2010 MxF DT it would have 2 eng modules - and ecm and a dcu (doser control unit). From 2006-present international engines you would need Navistar Engine Diagnostics software (roughly $600/yr subscription fee). If you go with per maxxforce eng (2007 & earlier), you can get free software from Navistar called servicemaxx 1708 from Navistar to diagnose the engine. If you buy an older pre-get eng you get more reliability and less complexity. I personally thin the best international electronic eng is the 1998-2003 as it is pre-Egr and only has 1 eng module (cheap to replace). I would stay away from internationalís 1st electronic eng (1994-nov 1997) as they had 3 eng modules which can only be refurbed - you cannot by replacements (xcept on eBay). If someone steels one of your 1994-1997 eng modules youíre screwed. A lot of older mechanical engines are good options too.



the god-mode servicemaxx works on the maxxforce... I just recently used it to deem a 2009 MFDT as DOA.. EGR cooler failure filled up the cylinders with water.. that bus is now probably a 1 foot by 2 foot block of metal someplace...



great find to the OP on the triple 4 echo.. !!
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