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Old 01-13-2021, 05:12 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Miami, Fl.
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Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E-Md3060
Allison 2000 Service manual

Need some input please...

The bus we have been working on now which is almost done, took it out for fuel and now the trans won't shift out of first.

I tried manual shifting but it to will not shift manually.

I am suspecting the speed sensor but this is my first rodeo with this
scenario.

The bus is a 2003 IC AMTRAN, DT466e with an Allison 2000 tranny.

Question, how do you test a speed sensor?

From what I have learned so far, if the TCM does not see an input from the speed sensor then it may not know it needs to shift.

While doing my research I found this really informative Service manual for the 1000/2000 tranny.

Here it is.
Can't upload, it is 8.3 M...too big to upload so here is the link.
http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/...gs/ALLISON.pdf


Also, the speedometer on the dash does nott work when you are driving. Tach works fine.

both tach and speedo will swing back and forth when you turn on the key (self test) but no speedo while driving.

Any thoughts?
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:12 PM   #2
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Check Trans light

Question:

On an Allison 2000, when you turn the key switch to the "ON" position, does your "CHECK TRANS" light come on momentarily and then shuts off?

We are trying to figure out if this is supposed to occur or not as the one we are working on does not light up at all...

Yes we checked the bulb.
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:16 PM   #3
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Output speed sensor

Can anyone tell me how to test a speed sensor.

What I did but not sure if this is a good way or not, using a digital ohmmeter set on continuity, put one lead to each pin then used a steel socket, placed it up against the sensor and quickly removed it. I did see the VOM change readings, from nothing to infinity.

Is this the best way to bench test these?
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:22 AM   #4
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TS3192EN Allison 1000/2000 troubleshooting manual

For anyone who might be interested, I just found the Allison 2000 Electronic controls troubleshooting manual. It is 400+ pages long! 18 meg file size I believe!

Hopefully I can figure out why this tranny doesn't want to go into gear!

Here is the link, too large to upload.
http://www.taurusfleetservices.com/i...-1000-2000.pdf
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:44 AM   #5
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If it's an electric trans, step 1 is to check for any trouble codes. If you have shifting issues you should have codes.

If you have a speed sensor fault, it will throw a specific code of some sort, and that code will then give you the proper diagnostic tree to follow which will check the sensor, wiring, etc for the location of the exact fault.

Is the trans actually in first or is it in limp mode and in 3rd gear?
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Old 01-15-2021, 11:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
If it's an electric trans, step 1 is to check for any trouble codes. If you have shifting issues you should have codes.

If you have a speed sensor fault, it will throw a specific code of some sort, and that code will then give you the proper diagnostic tree to follow which will check the sensor, wiring, etc for the location of the exact fault.

Is the trans actually in first or is it in limp mode and in 3rd gear?
Thanks for replying...
I currently do not have a code reader but I guess I will be ordering one this weekend.

We loosened up all the grounds, following them from pin 1 & 5 on the tcm, cleaned them up and re-secured.
Got voltage to the TCM on pins 2,3,4 but on pin 25, the check trans light, we get nothing.
Checking the wire itself to make sure it isn't gone bad internally. Also checking the fuse holder on this wire as I have read other posts that they open up internally from age and heat.

Sensors, output speed and engine speed bench tested.
I have read that one in limp mode it stays there until you clear the codes so we are hoping that this is all it is going to take.

The bus starts and drives forward and backward. Reverse light come on when reverse selected to TCM is operational in that respect.

The bus sat for a good year, batteries went dead. They were removed from the bus when they were charged.

This is an interesting learning lesson, glad it is not my bus though this time!
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:20 PM   #7
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On my 3060 the trans light is switched 12v constant and the interface grounds the light when it needs to, it shouldn't show voltage ever, that's what I found on the schematic and how I wired mine. If I am wrong then please chime in.
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:32 PM   #8
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Thanks,

How about anyone with a 2000 tranny...does your "Check Trans" light up momentarily when you turn on the key?
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
Thanks,

How about anyone with a 2000 tranny...does your "Check Trans" light up momentarily when you turn on the key?
Yes

my check trans does a Key on Self test of the bulb

also my Shift inhibit light does a key on self test



I have a 1999 T444E and I custom swapped in the A-2000

if this helps
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Old 01-18-2021, 02:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina View Post
Yes

my check trans does a Key on Self test of the bulb

also my Shift inhibit light does a key on self test



I have a 1999 T444E and I custom swapped in the A-2000

if this helps
Thank you!

This is exactly what I wanted to confirm.

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Old 02-19-2021, 02:31 PM   #11
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I have a question....please

The bus is a 2003 IC FE AMTRAN, DT466e with an Allison 2000 tranny.


Ok so we have confirmed no communication to the TCM.
I haven't followed the wires yet but my question is this.

Does anyone know where the 2 - 10 amp fuses that protect/feed the tcm are located?
I have checked in the fuse panel outside the bus under the driver window, under the bus by the TCM that is up on the frame rail and down below by the steering wheel.

I have yet to lift off/remove the dash cluster to look under there.

So, does anyone know where these 2 fuses that feed pin 25 and pin3 of the tcm are located?

thanks,
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:38 PM   #12
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Try looking in the battery box.
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Try looking in the battery box.
LOL...wow...

Maybe I should have explained this a little better, I already know about the battery box fuse but thanks for the reply....

So the Battery box fuse test good on continuity and visually!

I was looking at the ATSG TSI for the wiring on a 200TCM and it reflects 3 fuses in operation. one behind the key switch which sends voltage to the trans check light. I am assuming the TCM sends a momentary ground internally to that pin so as to "Flicker" the check trans light when you initially turn the key switch on.

Pin 3 of the tcm shops another fuse coming from the battery.
I'm gonna check wiring today to see if that one fuse in the batt box feed all the pins, meaning all the connections are wired together somewhere, or is there another fuse that is hidden somewhere?


See attached file please.

I had a local school bus fleet mechanic hookup his puter and there was no communication to the TCM. When we turn the key the "Check trans light " does not come on at all.
So the tranny is in limp mode as we can go forward with no shifting and also in reverse.

The question on the table should be, is there "Another" fuse, besides the one in the battery box, somewhere under maybe the dash cluster?

I'll be tearing that off today but I was hoping someone already had the answer for that.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf atsg 2000 tcm wiring.pdf (103.4 KB, 4 views)
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:15 PM   #14
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I didn't see any fuses on my engine/tranny swap but i did notice that the main power wire going to the tranny had a fusable link, did you check your main power from the starter?
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:44 PM   #15
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ok, so WE FOUND THE FUSE !!

It was located right under the brake pedal underneath the bus, on the top edge of the frame rail.
There was no way of visually seeing it just by crawling under the bus. We had to follow the TCM cable from the TCM itself and worked our way forward until we found it.

Sad news is I think the computer is fried!
The 10 amp fuse was blown!
Unplugged the gray connector from the TCM, replaced the fuse and voila, we got twelve volts.

Pulled the fuse, reconnected the gray connector to the TCM and fuse popped immediately!

Unplugged again the gray connector and did a continuity test on the #3 wire on the gray connector back to the fuse plug, clean reading, also tested to ground looking for a short to ground, all good.

We are thinking that we may have damaged it charging the batteries of the bus.
We did pull the one fuse out at the batteries thinking it was just one fuse for both the ECU and TCM but NO.... there are 2 fuses!!!

Tomorrow we source a new tcm and see what happens.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tcm fuse pic.jpg (182.9 KB, 11 views)
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:59 PM   #16
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May not be the TCM, may be the VIM, where are you checking?
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
May not be the TCM, may be the VIM, where are you checking?
So far we checked the wiring from battery to tcm only.

I am not aware of a VIM for an Allison 2000 tranny but I do know where it is on my bus with an MD3060 (re). It is in the black box inside the rear engine compartment, passenger side.

Help me out here if you can, take a look at the ATSG diagram I uploaded up in post #13, above.

With the TCM not plugged in, fuse removed and the key switch off I do get 12 volts on the gray connector on pins 2 & 4.
I plug in fuse and yes voltage now on pin 3.

Unplug fuse, reconnected gray connector to TCM, key switch off and fuse blows immediately, violently when inserted!

I metered pins 2, 3, & 4 for continuity to pins 1 & 5 to see if unit is shorted internally on these pins and nothing, no continuity.

So with TCM gray connector unplugged, key on - powered up, fuse does not low which tells be the harness is probably ok.

Going back to your VIM suggestion, I just did a word search for VIM in the Allison 200 trouble shooting manual I posted up in post #1 and nothing came back for the VIM search.

http://www.taurusfleetservices.com/i...-1000-2000.pdf

If you got any ideas I am open to work them through.
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Old 02-21-2021, 07:54 PM   #18
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have you been doing any work on the body? What area? Could you have pinched a wire? Cause and affect, what did you change to create a problem. According to my 3000 info they have a VIM, should I assume a 2000 does also? You can call ECM king in the morning, they like to answer questions about these kind of things.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:27 AM   #19
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I’m doing a swap from AT545 to A2000. Thanks for posting. Im currently in limp mode, well my bus is. Can you tell where the dash wire is that connects to the check trans light? I know where it is on the transmission side, and think it’s brown wire 92 from the dash side but haven’t found it yet. I’m missing the steel connector through the firewall so trying to piece it together. Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:42 AM   #20
Bus Nut
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
I’m doing a swap from AT545 to A2000. Thanks for posting. Im currently in limp mode, well my bus is. Can you tell where the dash wire is that connects to the check trans light? I know where it is on the transmission side, and think it’s brown wire 92 from the dash side but haven’t found it yet. I’m missing the steel connector through the firewall so trying to piece it together. Thanks!
take a look at the ATSG diagram in post 13.

I would just run 2 wires, one wire to pin 25 and the other wire to the fused key switch terminal and put the bulb in the dash cluster.
The TCM will send terminal 25 to a low state, grounding it which will make it light up the check trans light.

Probably be the easiest thing to do.

but later today or tomorrow I'll go out to the bus to see if I can find the color and wire number.
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