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Old 11-02-2023, 09:46 AM   #1
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Allison 2000 swap

guys i know there have been several threads on this but reading all of them is only confusing me more ( sorry newbie here to the diesel world )

so i have a 2000 intl amtran with a t444e and 545 with air brakes. I am looking to have transmission swapped out in near future

I have found a allsion 2000 that was pulled from a 2001 t444e so i am thinking it should have the proper housing to bolt up to my t444e

it does not come with TCM or anything else

My question is what will i need to get to make is work. I know i need to have programming done but what other and if parts are hard to find ... should i buy it and store for when i find the rest needed looks like the transmission comes with the parking brake assembly ( not sure i need that if i have airbrakes but i could be wrong ) .... any guidance would be greatly appreciated

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Old 11-02-2023, 09:53 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Lsaenz413 View Post
guys i know there have been several threads on this but reading all of them is only confusing me more ( sorry newbie here to the diesel world )

so i have a 2000 intl amtran with a t444e and 545 with air brakes. I am looking to have transmission swapped out in near future

I have found a allsion 2000 that was pulled from a 2001 t444e so i am thinking it should have the proper housing to bolt up to my t444e

it does not come with TCM or anything else

My question is what will i need to get to make is work. I know i need to have programming done but what other and if parts are hard to find ... should i buy it and store for when i find the rest needed looks like the transmission comes with the parking brake assembly ( not sure i need that if i have airbrakes but i could be wrong ) .... any guidance would be greatly appreciated
I'm no where near an expert, or novice, but my guess is a TCM, wiring harness, wiring diagram, maybe a shifter...

My best thoughts on this would be to find a donor bus and get all the parts you need in one place for one price.

Cadillackid is a guru on this topic, I'm sure he will share more informed thoughts!
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Old 11-02-2023, 10:00 AM   #3
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What you need to get is what you're missing lol.

Honestly, without seeing this trans that you found, nobody can tell you for sure. Does it have the harness? Dipstick tube? You said there's a driveline brake on the trans, which isn't needed with air brakes, but does it have the right flange for your current u-joints? Let alone sourcing a used tcm that will work(I wouldn't).

There is no single shopping list of components, because the number of individual components needed is in the hundreds and it varies bus to bus.

That's why the easiest route is buying an entire donor bus. That way you should have nearly every component needed for the swap. And the few thousand a used bus costs vs the few thousand a used transmission costs, it's not worth the headache and hassle of buying the trans itself, sourcing the missing pieces, and attempting the swap IMO.
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Old 11-02-2023, 03:39 PM   #4
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Buy the trans/harness/tcm at the same time.

Cadillac Kid is the guru for making all of the electronics talk to each other, however the A2000 tcm only needs a tps sensor input so its not a huge hack to make it work.

I did a mechanical 5.9 545 to 2000 swap (5spd) and it is the only way to go.
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Old 11-02-2023, 04:27 PM   #5
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Buy the trans/harness/tcm at the same time.

Cadillac Kid is the guru for making all of the electronics talk to each other, however the A2000 tcm only needs a tps sensor input so its not a huge hack to make it work.

I did a mechanical 5.9 545 to 2000 swap (5spd) and it is the only way to go.



the OP has a T444E so the electronic link is there.. he wont need a special TPS sensor.. in his year the J1939 is there, we just have to turn it on in the ECM...
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Old 11-02-2023, 06:33 PM   #6
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Right, I gathered the TPS existed somewhere already way above my pay grade.

I certainly appreciate your skills with all that literal wizardry, you're an invaluable resource here and many of us owe you bigtime.
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Old 11-02-2023, 07:28 PM   #7
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I certainly appreciate your skills with all that literal wizardry, you're an invaluable resource here and many of us owe you bigtime.
Christopher is an invaluable member of the family. The dude knows everything!!!
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Old 11-06-2023, 05:47 AM   #8
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I’ve done this exact swap. You really need the donor bus. Read through the various threads on here several more times. I did it without a portion of the harness and struggled to figure out the wiring. I eventually got it but it would have been so much easier with a donor bus. Plus, you can sell the donor when you get done and put the AT545 in that bus.
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Old 11-09-2023, 07:53 PM   #9
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I’ve done this exact swap. You really need the donor bus. Read through the various threads on here several more times. I did it without a portion of the harness and struggled to figure out the wiring. I eventually got it but it would have been so much easier with a donor bus. Plus, you can sell the donor when you get done and put the AT545 in that bus.
Hmmmm......makes me think that I should rip the whole wire harness, shifter, TCM....yadda yadda yadda out of the bus where scrapping. Our convertor snapped all the bolts and and messed up the adapter. We ended up not fixing the bus. Scrapped the the trans. Pushed it to the side, use it for storage now. Will haul it away for scrap one day. Last T444e in the fleet. Has 280,000kms on it but 13,000hrs on the engine. Been good. Still has the original HPOP. We change our engine oil every 7500kms or 6 months.
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Old 11-10-2023, 04:22 AM   #10
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Omnibot, I’ve got one bus with 286k and more than 19,000 hours. She seems tired but drive well 1,500 miles across county towing a pickup. Not sure why but now she is running poorly. I just haven’t had time to dig into it. I’m guessing lpop but not sure. It’s the one I put the Allison 2000 in too. Crazy how yours broke!
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Old 11-10-2023, 05:59 PM   #11
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converter bolts snapping happens most often because they have backed out and the bus driver chose to ignore the mild chattering sound and field... the bolts will shear off one at a time until they are gone.. Navistar and allison both require Loctite on the converrter bolts fir the DT and T444E engines.. it is blue-style loctite which will eventually wear out.. or if someone had the bus apart and put it back together without re-applying it then the bolts come loose..



the other reason for converter bolts shearing is the converter itself fails and vibrates excessively... which causes the bolts to loosen and see above.. loose bolts..



I wouldnt use a transmission that all the converter bolts sheared off of and then broke the adapter.. it probably thrashed the pump pretty good..
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Old 11-11-2023, 04:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
converter bolts snapping happens most often because they have backed out and the bus driver chose to ignore the mild chattering sound and field... the bolts will shear off one at a time until they are gone.. Navistar and allison both require Loctite on the converrter bolts fir the DT and T444E engines.. it is blue-style loctite which will eventually wear out.. or if someone had the bus apart and put it back together without re-applying it then the bolts come loose..



the other reason for converter bolts shearing is the converter itself fails and vibrates excessively... which causes the bolts to loosen and see above.. loose bolts..



I wouldnt use a transmission that all the converter bolts sheared off of and then broke the adapter.. it probably thrashed the pump pretty good..
100% That's why we scrapped the transmission. Actually sold it to a local trans. rebuild shop as a rebuildable core for $250. Told the shop how it failed. They were fine and would use it for parts or rebuild.
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Old 01-28-2024, 10:13 AM   #13
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I did the swap with a donor bus. I believe I was the first to attempt it without laptops

I just bought a whole another bus and dived in. Cadillac Kid no doubt is the guru in all things for sure

But I showed a dummy can do it

I'm still driving the vista for camping trips etc. It has been like 5 years or more and I have not had one single issue or break down

buying another bus is easiest

but what you need would be this

1. TCM (transmission computer) and the mount (OEM the TCM mounts to the frame rail under the bus... there is also a plastic cover for it.

2. TCM to Transmission Harness... this is a LOT of wires in a huge bundle... most go to transmission, and a few go up in the dash (yes, the dreaded pink wire lol)

3. The J139 cable (about 8 ft long or so, has two plugs on each end. This is the link between the TCM and the ECM. Where it plugs in is capped off near your ECM

4. Any adapters between the A2000 and the donor bus. This is where it gets semi complicated depending on the donor. My donor was wired for the AT545, but had the upgraded Allison transmission. So my TCM harness came already with adapters for an AT545 bus.. so hanging of the end of my TCM harness were the appropriate plugs for an AT545 reverse light, neutral safety etc. This MAY NOT be the case for everyone and so you would need to identify and splice all these connections from the A-2000 harness to the appropriate connections that used to plug into your old AT545.

5. You'll need to do some wiring in the dash... I cover it in my thread as I tracked them down. My harness came with the "Economy Mode" button, and also the Key On Self Check light and I had to sort those.

6. The pink wire was the most troubling and in the end it was just key on 12v power and this is the signal to "turn on " the TCM.... my god it gave me fits

7. Air brakes is easiest.. juice brake people have extra steps to sort with the driveline brake.

8. Shifter didn't need changing, but somehow on mine the brackets (stayed original) caused both shifters to function fine, but its in reverse. In other words my bus shifts like a boat now. FWD is FWD, and Reverse is all the way down lol... being a boater I like this and didn't investigate further

I put my AT545 in the donor, and it's shifter also reversed direction, and sold it for $200 more than I paid.

Had to go to International to re-program the ECM

one note.. you need to get your ECM checked and old parameters printed up.. I needed a lot of old data from my ECM to put in the new (I took the 2002 ECM from donor, but needed my smaller tire size and rear end ratio changed.. I took the 99 ECM into the dealer and they hooked into a machine and printed what they would need for later and gave it to me. Later i took the bus in, and those sheets, and they transferred the needed data to the new ECM

It can be done.. I don't come on hear much anymore.. the bus is done and now I just use it

Ironically I just got another vista with a DT408 and I think AT542... it will be a guest house and not move. and possibly body parts for mine in case of an oops as they are discontinued

My thread is "transmission options" and it shows me going from a complete duffer to pulling it off, when many thought not possible and in a Vista to boot lol

and like everyone I owe my debt to Cadillac as well

cheers

dave
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Old 01-28-2024, 10:21 AM   #14
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flip the lever on the shifter shaft at the transmission over to the other side and it wont shift backwards.. essentially your cable is pushing when it should be pulling and vice versa.. or i should say its rotating the shifter shaft clockwise when it should be counter and vice versa
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Old 01-28-2024, 10:34 AM   #15
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Hi Chris

It's been awhile since I have been under bus of course but I seem to remember that the brackets wouldn't interchange.. the bolt pattern holding them was different.

i get exactly what you are saying but I seem to remember when I was doing the swap thinking to do exactly that but the holes wouldn't line up to turn it around.

In the end being "cruiser" with a big boat we like it this way and now I am used to it

But I do remember initially attempting to "reverse" it as you say and it wasn't having it

I hope you are doing well mate
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Old 01-28-2024, 08:40 PM   #16
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yrah if I remember right I had to make a new bracket to hold the cable on mine.
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