Another AT545 to A2000 Tranny Swap - Page 2

Diverdude0075 · 01-05-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

The round thing on the side is your modulater

it is not needed for the A-2000

Thanks Dave! I thought I read that. Probably in your thread. I guess I’ll reread your thread some. I’m still waiting to hear back from my seller to see if he has or can get the harness. I sent him one of those pics you sent me that has it on there.

Did you mention you can get the 9 pin connector? That would cool, or share a link of what I need and I’ll order it. There are like a million different ones out there!

Diverdude0075 · 01-05-2021, 02:08 PM

I got my battery cables repaired! I can’t wait to hear how easy it starts!!

Here’s a pic the tool:
https://imgur.com/gallery/sp2YV8f

Here’s a link if you wanna buy one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEMCo-Batte....m46890.l49292

Back to my missing harness... no luck yet from the seller. No luck from google either. Really, I think my most hopeful option is someone on here helping me out!

Rwnielsen · 01-05-2021, 03:38 PM

I've been using that type of cable smasher for about 35 years now, they work great

Diverdude0075 · 01-05-2021, 04:30 PM

So I read through Dave's swap thread (Transmission Options) again. I can see I absolutely need the piece of harness going to the dash.

On page 9 Chris describes what goes to the dash. Trans fuse, check trans and econ button.

I also read how important the neutral safety switch is! Haha, especially when you don't realize you're not in neutral.

It would seem I'm not nearly as close to done as I want to be without the last bit of harness. On the other hand it's only 5-6 wires so perhaps someone could guide me on what to do to make it? I may go to the local International dealer to see if they can get the plug I need.

I'm dropping off the driveline today. Tomorrow I plan to put the weatherpak on the three wire connector near the passenger valve cover. I think that is considered the old J1939 which has since been changed to a nine pin connector in newer buses.

Diverdude0075 · 01-10-2021, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

there are a lot of different shifter linkage brackets made.. I was impatient trying. to find one(there was no donor vehicle for my project) so i ended up making my own which of course looks different from the factory.

the wires goingto the starter are always a fgood place to start looking when there are electrical issues.. these wires take the brunt of road salt, oil, dirt, etc.. and there are often fiusible lionks im those bundles too.. a blown fusible link can throw you for a loop. as they will burn apart inside the insulation. (they look like a wire!) they look fine but wont conduct power anymore.. I swear manufacturers used them as a conspiracy against the DIY mechanic who would spend hours trying to fix an electrical failure before taking it to a shop!.. ha!!

those connectors in your harness look like exactly as rolesville mentioned, they are what go to your bus harness connectors..

the 2 single ones connect to the single ones on your bus.. those are neutral safety.. (trivia piece.. if the Neutral safety switch on the trans fails and your bus wont crank.. you can plug those 2 single connectors together on the BUS SIDE. to bypass neutral safety..)..

one of the doubles is your Reverse Lights, and the other double plugs into the connector for your VSS (speedometer sensor)..

these should have mates from the harness going to the bus itself.. you wouldve left them hanging when you uninstalled your AT545.

the Speed signal will likely fail until your ECM is reprogrammed for 'allison MD'.

ther J1939 stuff.. if you cant get the rest of the harness from the donor truck, then you can in fact cut and make those harness pieces yourself.

to do the job fully complete, you will want to replace your in-cab diagnostic connector with the 9 pin updated one and harness it out to the J1939 connectors..

in my case I made my own J1939 cable and didnt replace my diagnostic connector on the dash.. you only need the transmission pins in that connector if you plan to ever reprogram your allison TCM.. most likely you will only reprogram your engine ECM and never touch the program for the allison..

the connector under the hood is a 3 pin WEATHERPAK connector and the mate to it can be bought online all over.. the round connector can be cut off or you can buy the mates to them.. (I think rolesville's thread has a link to those round connectors)

best case is you go back to your seller and see if they can get you the rest of the harness that is missing which would make it more plug N play.

if you decide to make your own J1939 datalink cable, be sure to twist the yellow / green together. and then leave the black wire separate.. I used a drill to make a twisted pair and put it in plastic convoluted wire tubing (can be bought at any auto parts store)..

Hi Christopher, getting the portion of missing harness or the dash portion I’m missing does not look likely. You mentioned I could make my own. I think this is going to have to happen.

I’m not worried about replacing the in dash diag connector, just make the bus work with the new to me A2000. Converting the connector in the engine bay to the weatherpak doesn’t seem difficult. I was waiting to see if I could find the missing harness before cutting anything.

There are surprisingly few bus salvage yards that I know of. Aaabus in Phoenix is the only one I’m aware of.

Aside from using the weatherpak for having the ecm talk to the tcm under the hood, what needs to be hooked up to the dash? I don’t have the Econ mode button or light, is this a show stopper? Same question for the trans inhibitor and trans light? I’m pretty sure I need the later two at least but wanting to double check.

I was under the impression that as long as my ecm has those three wires to hook to the tcm it could work without too much difficulty. Can this backyard mechanic pull it off? I hope so!

Not having the donor bus is biting me in the arse! I wouldn’t have anywhere to park one though...

Here’s a pic of the bus sadly sitting in my driveway still.

https://imgur.com/gallery/wZ1SfqE

cadillackid · 01-10-2021, 10:05 AM

You got this.. the Econ switch is a nicety but not a deal killer.
The shift inhibit and check trans lights are a little more important but not deal killers.

I like them because they help me if something goes wrong. Ie the check trans light comes on for a couple seconds when you start the bus so you know your TCM has power. If the j 1939 link isnt correct that light stays on..

Since the harness is in sections I’d think there would be a part of it that is either a extra connector or dangling wires that terminate to the TCM connectors .. I’m travelling and don’t have my wiring diagrams with me but we should be able to figure out what those wires are so they can get hooked up. The lights are just that they don’t need to be special. My check trans light is a lamp that already existed on my dash for school lights , so we can get there. I’m trying to think if I posted the wiring diagrams in anyone’s threads where we can get the colors so you can go to town

Oldyeller · 01-10-2021, 10:05 AM

You can download manuals for the Allison transmissions from the site pasted below. I found them via a Google search. They show a lot about connectors, you might want to take a few minutes, if you haven't already, to download.

https://www.pdfmanual4trucks.com/allison-transmission/

Native · 01-11-2021, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

You can download manuals for the Allison transmissions from the site pasted below. I found them via a Google search. They show a lot about connectors, you might want to take a few minutes, if you haven't already, to download.

https://www.pdfmanual4trucks.com/allison-transmission/

Thank you for the link!

Diverdude0075 · 01-11-2021, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

You can download manuals for the Allison transmissions from the site pasted below. I found them via a Google search. They show a lot about connectors, you might want to take a few minutes, if you haven't already, to download.

https://www.pdfmanual4trucks.com/allison-transmission/

Thanks! I’ll see if I can figure out what/where to connect!

Diverdude0075 · 01-11-2021, 03:13 PM

Oldyeller,

Wow, there’s a lot of good info in there! It’s describes how each circuit works, shows pinouts, and other stuff on your link when I went to Allison 1000/2000! I’ll probably read or skim all 120 pages!

I can’t wait to find out about the dash stuff which is my current nemesis!

Thanks again!

Diverdude0075 · 01-11-2021, 03:39 PM

Here are some helpful screenshots that help make things clear, and brings up a question I’ll ask below.

It sounds like all the circuitry is there for the check trans light. Is this just a matter of putting the bulb in? Anyone have a part number on the bulb?

I didn’t see anything regarding the Econ mode or trans inhibit ...

Here’s the link:
https://imgur.com/gallery/er9NW48

Also, notice how weird the j1939 looks.

I’m going to look for other helpful info from Oldyeller’s link.

RolesvilleMarina · 01-12-2021, 09:34 AM

Some more random thoughts

as for econo mode and the other lights

econo mode I am unsure if yours has this program (again all it does is control the shift points... for "power" it shifts later in the rpms... thats all)

I am unsure if it is missing will it throw a code. If it throws a code will it put you in limp mode.

The Inhibit light- should be fine as the other day I was mucking about and I've accidentally pulled the wire off my actual light and nae put it back yet. Its not illuminating during the TCM powerup self test and no code. so likely no worries

Transmission check engine light - I wouldn't even attempt to drive unless I KNEW the TCM could tell me there is an issue... setting up for a costly mistake, as skipping the diag port. (I am still trying to also source one for you) because without the diag port if you need any programming the TCM won't be seen on the laptop... to my knowledge you need these J139 to talk to the TCM. Unless you can skip it, and the TCM can be changed by sending through a standard 6 pin and talking THROUGH the ECM to the TCM to make changes ?? dunno

As you also saw in my thread there was a pink wire that in the end was +12 down to the TCM... This gave me fits at first and in the end found it was sending power, and not something else. There was also a fuse and a relay in this bundle going from dash to TCM remember....

My thread is a mess of thinking out loud, but I talk myself through the final bits with chris's and others help.

Right now since you can't get the donor, and it seems that your round plug was intergrated into the bus harness and mine wasn't, that we should start with untaping the wires to that plug, and posting up the color codes you find, and together we all look at the allison diagrams and we can start fleshing out the dash you need to run

the trans light bulb should be a 194

cheers
Dave

Oldyeller · 01-12-2021, 10:10 AM

I'll toss this in here as a FWIW (for what it's worth).

One day I was grazing on Google looking for stuff of interest for my bus, a 2004 IC CE200. I wanted to find information about the construction of the body/chassis because I was planning to cut off a few feet from the rear of the bus so wanted to get information about how it was put together. I wasn't certain there WAS a manual specifically for the chassis and if there was I doubted I'd find it but I was surprised to find the International factory chassis manual and download it. Point is, as has been said by many others, Google is your friend - unless they censor you.

RolesvilleMarina · 01-12-2021, 11:02 AM

I sent him that PDF of the RE/FE chassis wiring
as the allison stuff

I think I did, if not I will send

just ask

I have
IH T444E complete engine manual in PDF
the entire Vista body manual (leccy and wiring)
as well as the entire electrical manual for RE-FE IH buses of the 2000 -2004 (including transmission)

just PM with email and I will freely send anyone

Diverdude0075 · 01-12-2021, 03:50 PM

I’ve written my response the third time now due to fat fingers...

Here’s my plan of attack.

1. Buy and install trans light bulb. Thanks for the bulb number Dave! Easy peasy!

2. Sort the fused 12v wire. Dave, can you post pics or send in messenger where that comes out of the dash and where it connects to tcm please? I suppose I can go through your thread and get the number wire. Pics are so helpful sometimes, especially on the dash side. 62k is in my head...

3. Still need to connect three wires via weatherpak to ecm. Easy.

4. Install driveline since I got that yesterday! $300 for shortening one inch, two new ujoints and balancing three pieces. The shop bought two other extra drivelines I had for $100! So only cost me $200!

5. Dave, is this the plug you want me to identify the wires on?

https://imgur.com/gallery/7XEsyJs

I’m not sure which manuals I have. Will check for the chassis one.

Question: would the harness piece I need be the same for a 466? I think it’s possible and unlikely that would be engine specific. Aaabus had one out of a 466 bus... I would like to confirm they’re the same if possible before ordering.

Good to know the inhibit light missing shouldn’t hold me up. Unknown if Econ missing light and bulb will stop progress. Thanks.

johnbloem1974 · 01-12-2021, 05:42 PM

That big round plug *at least on my DT466E* looks just like the plug that goes to the injector harness through the valve cover...

John

cadillackid · 01-12-2021, 05:52 PM

im back in town for a day.. maybe 2.. let me know if you guys need me to search for any wiring info and ill see what i can do

Diverdude0075 · 01-13-2021, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

im back in town for a day.. maybe 2.. let me know if you guys need me to search for any wiring info and ill see what i can do

Thanks Christopher. My biggest mystery at the moment is where to pull fused 12v from and where does it go on the 2000? Especially since I am missing the dash harness and where it passes through the firewall.

From what I understand this is a separate power from the ones that connect mid-transmission pictured here:
https://imgur.com/gallery/lzExKWU

Can you ascertain if lacking the Econ mode and button is going to cause me problems?

Last question for now: Should I try to get the 2001 ECM that originally went with my transmission? I will still need to visit the dealer to get speed limiter reset, bump the hp to 210, and to turn on cruise. This ecm will most likely already be set to “Allison MD.”

Thanks again!

Thanks to John for confirming the plug looks the same. Also, John made me think that it would need to be a 466e versus the mechanical version.

Minor update: Last night I install the first of three sections of driveline after work. Some days my goal is just to get something done, no matter how small.

Diverdude0075 · 01-14-2021, 02:44 PM

Update:
I got the rest of the drive shaft installed.

What I did was have some small straps to hold the opposite ends of the driveline sections while installing the bolts and caps on the other end.

I got all the ujoint caps bolted in tightly first. While working across I loosely installed the center support bearings.

Once all the ujoints were tight I looked to see how the center support bearings lay in comparison to their mounting holes on the bus. They aligned perfectly!! Whew! My measurements on how much to take off the front driveshaft were correct!

Lastly I tightened the center support bearings and removed the straps.

One note on measurements: I measured the old transmission from the mounting surface to the engine adapter plate to the center of the first ujoint mounting location on back of the transmission. I took the same measurement on the Allison 2000 and found it to be one inch longer. I measured the front driveshaft center ujoint to center ujoint before removal and then measured that distance with the A2000 in place. It was one inch shorter, which matched my other measurement and gave me a warm fuzzy.

I have a four day weekend and hope to figure out electrical even if it means limping it back to the storage place 15 miles away.

sportyrick · 01-14-2021, 09:57 PM

Driverdude0075: Mmmmm guess nobody reads the classifieds; I am parting a 2005 BB with a 2000 transmission in it. I also have Wtec 3 troubleshooting manual and 3000 service manual as well as just changed my bus over to a 3060 which I see is a little different than the 2000 laying on the ground under the dead bus. There are a lot more wires than on my 1995 3060 with wtec 2. Why aren't you running a shifter? The check trans light it just a 12v idiot light. I saw the 2000 schematic and it is very similar to my 3060. cadillackid is the expert not me. sportyrick pm me if need be.

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