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Old 01-02-2021, 08:59 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Another AT545 to A2000 Tranny Swap

Hello All,

Thanks for all the help so far! I thought I would start my own swap thread for changing my AT545 to the Allison 2000.

First, there are three main ďmust readĒ swap threads that I read before deciding to take this on and much is covered there. One is titled The Redbyrd Transformation and is found here:

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/t...ion-18188.html

Another is titled Transmission Options and is found here:

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/t...ons-29535.html

And the third is titled Swapping a Allison 2000 into T444e with at545 and found here:

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/s...545-33161.html

My bus is a 1999 International 3800 Bluebird with the T444E (7.3 liter) diesel. My bus is 30 feet long, dog nose front engine with the handicap lift and 4.33 gears.

I sourced my Allison 2000 (2400) from a 2001 International bus along with its harness and TCM.

From the above mentioned threads I have been able to figure out how to bolt the A2000 into place with new cooler lines installed.

I should have the shifter linkage sorted tomorrow by using the bracket from my AT545. My driveshaft will be getting shortened by one inch this coming week hopefully.

Tomorrow I will also put fresh new fluid in, which meets Allison specs.

This will leave the most difficult part for me which is the electrical. A lot of it is plug and play since I sourced the tcm, harness and transmission together. Thanks to all who have contributed greatly and thusly gave me the confidence and knowledge to take this on! I will post some pics in the near future.

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Old 01-02-2021, 09:04 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Bravo Lad!

Crack on!


I am just posting here to be first to reply

Glad to help!
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:02 AM   #3
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
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Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
I’m getting ready to put fluid in. According to the link below, it looks like a refill gets 10 quarts. Do I put all 10, or perhaps 8 or 9, run through the gears and check the level? Page 10, table 10 on the link.

https://www.allisontransmission.com/...rsn=b221e01d_0
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:35 PM   #4
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This is a handy site if you know the ser #

https://allisontransmission.com/part...chTransmission
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:37 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
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Engine: T444E
Thanks Rwnielsen. I had entered my serial in and it didn’t give capacity there. I found the table and believe that to be accurate.

Today I finally figured out the bracket for the shifter linkage. It was attached to the A2000 the while time. It looks different than others pictures so threw me off.

I was attaching my wires to the starter today and the positive was severely damaged but hidden by a long piece of rubber hose. I’ve upgraded the GPR relay and starter which helped but fixing this damage will be huge! Here’s a pic. If you have problems starting clean and unwrap your starter cables. My damage was right where they pass under the transmission near the torque converter. Just get really hot there. The cables had gotten hard to bend in that area too just before and after the damage.

Pic of cables:
https://imgur.com/gallery/78kgIO1

Pic of my linkage bracket. My cables comes down from above, 90 degrees to the transmission.
https://imgur.com/gallery/XlZiNcY

I got most of the electrical harness connected. Mid transmission on the top are some round plugs. I may need some help figuring these out.
Here’s a pic of those from above. Thankfully I have a removable access plate!
https://imgur.com/gallery/2JKUdXa

I found the power wires (in an easy clip) that go to the TCM so that’s done. It helped that Dave mentioned that they are found on the chassis beneath where the drivers seat is. Also, the transmission clips into this and power continues into somewhere else. So you have to unclip the existing, and then it clips in feeding to the TCM and back out again.

For the engine bay where the three wires are, do I color match those when building the flat clip (getting rid of the round connector) or do I need to decipher some schematics to figure it out? Also, really close to this plug is a big round plug. It looks like the one that plugs into the back of the transmission. Is this the diagnostic port? Does it plug in somewhere I’m not seeing?

Thanks everyone! I’m getting so close!!!
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:20 PM   #6
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That cable looks nasty. Luckily it didn't burn a hole through something, there's no fuse protecting it.
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:29 PM   #7
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Year: 1998
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Engine: T444E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post



I got most of the electrical harness connected. Mid transmission on the top are some round plugs. I may need some help figuring these out.
Here’s a pic of those from above. Thankfully I have a removable access plate!
https://imgur.com/gallery/2JKUdXa

I found the power wires (in an easy clip) that go to the TCM so that’s done. It helped that Dave mentioned that they are found on the chassis beneath where the drivers seat is. Also, the transmission clips into this and power continues into somewhere else. So you have to unclip the existing, and then it clips in feeding to the TCM and back out again.

For the engine bay where the three wires are, do I color match those when building the flat clip (getting rid of the round connector) or do I need to decipher some schematics to figure it out? Also, really close to this plug is a big round plug. It looks like the one that plugs into the back of the transmission. Is this the diagnostic port? Does it plug in somewhere I’m not seeing?

Thanks everyone! I’m getting so close!!!
I'm just about to go to bed so I can address the round plugs first

those are the plugs that go to your bus harness... I recognize that single wire one.. I can take pics tomorrow.. it rained bollocks all day today so I couldn't get under the bus

The big round plug in the engine bay, big silver round part? That, off my head, is the rest of the TCM harness you are missing I think.. It goes to the check trans light, the shift inhibit light, and to the Econo mode switch (if equipped) and is still likely in your donor bus that stuff came from..

can you go back for that? I sent you some pics via email and you can see the one that has the econo switch and pink wires in the bundle... that is it and goes to that round plug


as for the round plugs on the J139 I wouldn't cut them, but thats up to you.. and again in earlier pics looks like you are missing the one that goes to the diag port (also prob in your donor bus still) That other round plug that is empty will have the flat end goes to your J139 on the ECM on it

All I got for the moment.. for homework get me some pics of where the sensors on the trans are going to.. if it's the TCM then like mine I think those round plugs are your reverse light, nuetral safety and the speed sensor... also one for the modulator on the AT545 and you won't use that one

again I'll get more pics to help you out soon as I can

cheers

Dave

I just checked the email I sent you and if you look close at the pic where I am holding the Econo mode switch and the amber light if you look at the table you will see the silver plug... right there above the switch (but on the table) in the photo... and the pink wires in the bundle
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:29 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwnielsen View Post
That cable looks nasty. Luckily it didn't burn a hole through something, there's no fuse protecting it.
No fuse that I could find and it was still starting the bus. Iím surprised a school system let this go. Iím the first owner other than those who auctioned it after the school district. It still has the kiddo stickers inside the bus. They are encouraging so I left them there for now.

At least they kept up oil changes! Several maintenance stickers are inside showing the last 4-5 oil changes they did.

I plan to drop the drive shaft off tomorrow to get shortened after work. Hoping to finish electrical in the next few days!
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:22 AM   #9
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
there are a lot of different shifter linkage brackets made.. I was impatient trying. to find one(there was no donor vehicle for my project) so i ended up making my own which of course looks different from the factory.



the wires goingto the starter are always a fgood place to start looking when there are electrical issues.. these wires take the brunt of road salt, oil, dirt, etc.. and there are often fiusible lionks im those bundles too.. a blown fusible link can throw you for a loop. as they will burn apart inside the insulation. (they look like a wire!) they look fine but wont conduct power anymore.. I swear manufacturers used them as a conspiracy against the DIY mechanic who would spend hours trying to fix an electrical failure before taking it to a shop!.. ha!!


those connectors in your harness look like exactly as rolesville mentioned, they are what go to your bus harness connectors..



the 2 single ones connect to the single ones on your bus.. those are neutral safety.. (trivia piece.. if the Neutral safety switch on the trans fails and your bus wont crank.. you can plug those 2 single connectors together on the BUS SIDE. to bypass neutral safety..)..


one of the doubles is your Reverse Lights, and the other double plugs into the connector for your VSS (speedometer sensor)..


these should have mates from the harness going to the bus itself.. you wouldve left them hanging when you uninstalled your AT545.



the Speed signal will likely fail until your ECM is reprogrammed for 'allison MD'.


ther J1939 stuff.. if you cant get the rest of the harness from the donor truck, then you can in fact cut and make those harness pieces yourself.



to do the job fully complete, you will want to replace your in-cab diagnostic connector with the 9 pin updated one and harness it out to the J1939 connectors..



in my case I made my own J1939 cable and didnt replace my diagnostic connector on the dash.. you only need the transmission pins in that connector if you plan to ever reprogram your allison TCM.. most likely you will only reprogram your engine ECM and never touch the program for the allison..



the connector under the hood is a 3 pin WEATHERPAK connector and the mate to it can be bought online all over.. the round connector can be cut off or you can buy the mates to them.. (I think rolesville's thread has a link to those round connectors)


best case is you go back to your seller and see if they can get you the rest of the harness that is missing which would make it more plug N play.



if you decide to make your own J1939 datalink cable, be sure to twist the yellow / green together. and then leave the black wire separate.. I used a drill to make a twisted pair and put it in plastic convoluted wire tubing (can be bought at any auto parts store)..
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:54 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Year: 1998
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Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post


those connectors in your harness look like exactly as rolesville mentioned, they are what go to your bus harness connectors..



the 2 single ones connect to the single ones on your bus.. those are neutral safety.. (trivia piece.. if the Neutral safety switch on the trans fails and your bus wont crank.. you can plug those 2 single connectors together on the BUS SIDE. to bypass neutral safety..)..


one of the doubles is your Reverse Lights, and the other double plugs into the connector for your VSS (speedometer sensor)..


these should have mates from the harness going to the bus itself.. you wouldve left them hanging when you uninstalled your AT545.



the Speed signal will likely fail until your ECM is reprogrammed for 'allison MD'.


ther J1939 stuff.. if you cant get the rest of the harness from the donor truck, then you can in fact cut and make those harness pieces yourself.



to do the job fully complete, you will want to replace your in-cab diagnostic connector with the 9 pin updated one and harness it out to the J1939 connectors..



in my case I made my own J1939 cable and didnt replace my diagnostic connector on the dash.. you only need the transmission pins in that connector if you plan to ever reprogram your allison TCM.. most likely you will only reprogram your engine ECM and never touch the program for the allison..



the connector under the hood is a 3 pin WEATHERPAK connector and the mate to it can be bought online all over.. the round connector can be cut off or you can buy the mates to them.. (I think rolesville's thread has a link to those round connectors)


best case is you go back to your seller and see if they can get you the rest of the harness that is missing which would make it more plug N play.



if you decide to make your own J1939 datalink cable, be sure to twist the yellow / green together. and then leave the black wire separate.. I used a drill to make a twisted pair and put it in plastic convoluted wire tubing (can be bought at any auto parts store)..

No I didn't have to make any J139 connectors... I had the donor. And that is exactly what it looks like he is missing.

still waiting for the confirmation of the other "plug" he has which I think is the one that goes to the dash (trans light, shift inhibit, and possibly econo mode)

I think that part is going to hold him up the most.. that is what my main roadblock was if you remember that mysterious plug with the pink wires

I'd like to see that end of the harness.. not all had econo mode, but He should have shift inhibit (can use a regular amber bulb and holder from amazon) and the "CHECK TRANS" light. I think I sent him all the paperwork from Allison they sent me.

Then to see if his bus dash has the blank in the cluster for check trans. Mine did, and had a light in it already but I had to figure out that wiring and that is what my write up spends the most time on is integreting that end of the harness into my dash.


so if he can go get those from the seller would be best. A Black 9 pin he can likely get from Ebay or a junk seller (I know one I can reach out too... that is easily shipped) but the other end of the trans harness if what I think it is would be nice to have that.

nice job describing those connectors and thanks.
I was too tired last night. I'm going to take some pics today and send them (email all I have for now)

Yeah I remember that neutral safety switch trick.. BUT Chris if you remember I was tearing my hair out on BOTH buses because neither of my buses were in neutral as my bracket was upside down and I was in "2" the whole time. ugh i wasted hours that day lol

Again lack of pics is killing me but Chris am I right in surmising that his harness ALSO has the Trans sensor connections to the TCM, and then the appropriate AT545 connections coming off the TCM harness? His is wrapped tighter than mine was and my AT545 plugs were clearly dangling from the TCM to plug into My AT545 harness on the vista.

wondering if this is normal? I figured most buses would have the updated harness and would plug the sensors right into the trans....

Also interesting to note the J139 has to be twisted... I never even noticed
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Old 01-04-2021, 04:25 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
I wrote a big response and now it’s gone...

I’ll try to remember everything...

The seller seems really nice and is seeing if he can track down the harness I’m missing. Is there a write up on this in case I have to make what I need? Please keep in mind I’m colorblind and not good with electrical.

Dave, I took my cluster off and I’m not seeing the check trans anything. Which pictures do you need? The sensors are all plugged in (hopefully correctly). Perhaps I could FaceTime and show you? We’re already friends on FB.

Christopher, thanks for explaining the round connectors! I have the single and double one connected. Since there are two of the two-wire connectors it’s possible I could have those reversed. For the single I’m guessing it doesn’t matter as long as the circuit is completed...
Along with those single and double connectors was a three wire connector that was used with the 545. I don’t see a place for that to plug into the transmission harness. Here’s a pic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/sPrqpsY

For the three wires near the valve cover that let the engine and trany talk, are the wire colors matching (yellow to yellow, etc.?). I bought the weatherpak kit you recommended in Redbyrd. You sold me on those pretty well. My plan is to change the three wires coming off the trany to this. I haven’t found the round adapter as an alternative yet. I thought I saw a diagram of this but can’t find it now. Here’s a pic just to ensure there’s no confusion:
https://imgur.com/gallery/u6J1jSv

I also am taking Christopher’s advise to get all three drive shafts balanced together. I called the local driveline place (Wilson’s in Albuquerque) and they recommended it too.

I’m probably forgetting something but will keep checking back here. I’m sort of in a race against the HOA while having my bus at the house... I’d rather not pay for a tow!
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Old 01-04-2021, 06:43 PM   #12
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interesting on the 3 pin to the 545, what connector on the 545 itself did that go to? I only had a pair of 2 pin connectors.. one male and one female so you couldnt mix them up.. the single pinners were the same the trans had a male and a female and the bus had a male and female so no mixing them up.



the 3 pin connector by your oil cap is your J1939.. and hook it up color for color.. your harness should follow the same standard as its an indisutry standard for J1939 to use Yellow (Can +(high)), green (CAN - (low)), and black is reference ground.


rolesville - twisting the yellow . green isnt an absolute necessity it is done to help combat electrical noise in the wire.. the J1939 protocol does use some error checking so bad frames can be discarded however keeping bad frames to a minimum is always desired when possible.
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Old 01-04-2021, 06:46 PM   #13
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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when the driveshafts are rturned to you they should have paint marks or arrows on them, when you install them line the shop's pointers up, you can ask them when you pick the set up if it doesnt look clear, each shop does it a little differently.. some draw a line with a white grease pen, others put arrow stickers on...



keep in mind if you ever take them down from the bus again (replace a bearing or U joint).. to take a grease pencil and mark lines on them so you can put them back the same way.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:30 PM   #14
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
when the driveshafts are rturned to you they should have paint marks or arrows on them, when you install them line the shop's pointers up, you can ask them when you pick the set up if it doesnt look clear, each shop does it a little differently.. some draw a line with a white grease pen, others put arrow stickers on...



keep in mind if you ever take them down from the bus again (replace a bearing or U joint).. to take a grease pencil and mark lines on them so you can put them back the same way.
Thanks, I will make sure they explain their markings. Iíll look at the three wire connector on the AT545 tomorrow too and take pics.

What does the shift inhibitor do? I donít have the Econ button or light. Can I run without those? Are the few items in the dash area critical to being able to drive the bus? I know I want the trouble light but it doesnít seem critical. The dash systems are fed by the transmission output, right. The only data going into the tcm seem to be the j1939 feed in the engine bay (3 wire connector), the various sensors and neutral safety switch on the trany, and the round connectors from the bus chassis. And thereís the power feed to tcm.

I removed the other two driveshafts after work today, and picked up my 3/0 connector for the negative starter connection and the 4/0 for the positive. I got the 3/0 installed and will do the other one tomorrow. I have the hammer style compression tool which works pretty well.

Turn around on completing the driveline is 1-2 days at the shop. I could possibly drive her this weekend. Fingers crossed. Iím gonna go ahead and try to order the nine pin connector in case I have to make it.

Itís late. Crashing..
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:40 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Looking for the 9 pin connector and about 1,000 are popping up. Does anyone have a link?

Also, I was thinking about Christopher saying to twist the yellow and green wires. For that connection I’m just cutting off the round end containing three wires and putting on the weatherpak connector. There really wouldn’t be room to do twisting. I feel like I’m missing something... ? Also, J1939 is the 9 pin and not the three wire weatherpak if I am reading correctly. Sorry for the numerous questions. Just trying to understand.

Now I’m crashing!
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
Iím getting ready to put fluid in. According to the link below, it looks like a refill gets 10 quarts. Do I put all 10, or perhaps 8 or 9, run through the gears and check the level? Page 10, table 10 on the link.

https://www.allisontransmission.com/...rsn=b221e01d_0
Thank you for the document!
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwnielsen View Post
This is a handy site if you know the ser #

https://allisontransmission.com/part...chTransmission
Funny thing ... I was at that link many months ago and could not pull up my transmission information. I went there following your link and it pulled right up! Thank you!
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:49 AM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Awesome, glad I could help in some small way!
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:52 AM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
interesting on the 3 pin to the 545, what connector on the 545 itself did that go to? I only had a pair of 2 pin connectors.. one male and one female so you couldnt mix them up.. the single pinners were the same the trans had a male and a female and the bus had a male and female so no mixing them up.



the 3 pin connector by your oil cap is your J1939.. and hook it up color for color.. your harness should follow the same standard as its an indisutry standard for J1939 to use Yellow (Can +(high)), green (CAN - (low)), and black is reference ground.


rolesville - twisting the yellow . green isnt an absolute necessity it is done to help combat electrical noise in the wire.. the J1939 protocol does use some error checking so bad frames can be discarded however keeping bad frames to a minimum is always desired when possible.
It goes to the round thing protruding from the drivers side of the AT545. Only two wires are connected to it. Since the harness Iím using came with the A2000 Iím thinking I can ignore. I think I remember reading somewhere the A2000 doesnít have that component. Please confirm! Hereís a pic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/MyqqE4K
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:54 AM   #20
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
It goes to the round thing protruding from the drivers side of the AT545. Only two wires are connected to it. Since the harness Iím using came with the A2000 Iím thinking I can ignore. I think I remember reading somewhere the A2000 doesnít have that component. Please confirm! Hereís a pic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/MyqqE4K
The round thing on the side is your modulater

it is not needed for the A-2000
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