Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-10-2021, 11:45 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
At 545 to allison 2000 after swap problems

Hello all I need some help on a well discussed topic on this website. I recently did the infamous at 545 to Allison 2000 swap, I have read a lot of the threads and discussions especially from Cadillackid and marina (I know I probably spelled stuff wrong and I am sorry) and there was a ton of great information. The swap is done now but I am having issues, here is all of the known info for you guys to think over.

The bus is a 1999 amtran(international) 3800 it has the T444E engine, It had the AT 545 now it has 2000 series Allison, The donor harness and TCU came from a 2001 international with a T444E and an Allison 2000 series, The driveshaft is shortened and everything is back together, the three wires in the front right of the engine by the engine ECU (yellow, green and black) are connected to my trans harness, new shifter bracket made and installed no binding, the bus starts right up but when you put it in gear it does not load the engine there is no sound change, also you have to rev it up and then it jerks and moves forward and also the same for reverse, the only thing I have left to do is a filter service and new fluid, the trans sat in a garage for a couple of years but it was out of the weather, also I know I need to get it changed from AT to MD but I thought it would at least move ok. And the bus I came out of drove fine, Any help would be great this website is awesome so many cool people and great ideas and builds thanks in advance for any help.

Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 02:23 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,411
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
OK so the allison 1000 / 2000 is a mechanically engaged transmission so you can completely unplug the electronics and the vehicle should still engage the transmission.


Shifter Gate alignment is IMPORTANT in a mechanically engaged transmission.. My shifter is gated for R-N and D. if the shift cable is misadjusted its possible that the transmission is being bound from fully engaging to the gear and this will cause a no or lagged move situation..



couple things you can do.



the transmission can be shifted from the cab to any gear with the BUS TURNED OFF and then crawl under and check the cable.



so put it in R you should feel a most definite click on the shifter wit hthe button pressed.. getting underneath you should be able to grab hold of the thin part of the cable right at the shift lever and it should have a tiny bit of slack.. if its tight as a banjo string then the shift cable is bound.. you can adjust the jacket forward or backwards just slightly to allow a bit of slack..



you do that for N and then D as well.. if all is good and you have just a little slack then you know the gates on your dashboard lever are matching of the gates on the trans shift lever..



if the bus still doesnt want to move..



be sure you are checking the trans fluid with the engine running.. its normal to fill it after a new install and have it go quite low right away as the cooling system lines are filled up and fluid circulated through the trans..



to check for full cold.. I start the engine then I shift to R then N then D-3-2-1 then 2-3-D-N. i leave the level in each position about 1 second that gives the trans a chance to circulate the valve body full.. then with engine running I want to see my fluid on the full-cold line of the dipstick..



IMPORTANT is to have gotten the dipstick from the 2000 in the donor vehicle.. you cant just grab a stick and go.. the dipstick tube and length are a matched set so using the old stick from the AT545 into the tube of the 2000 == BAD. using a GMC-1000 stick in an IH dipstick tube == BAD.. remember the stick and tube are a matched set. most people are able to retrieve the dipstick and tube from the donor vehicle. if you did that and they are a set all is good.



I was told by more than one transmission shop that a Full-Hot allison 1000/2000 when running is right about level with the top of the pan, my dipstick and tube reflected that idea when i did the measurements..



if the trans still doesnt move then its time to look at the spin on and internal filters,dropping the pan gives you a chance to look for any metals present as well.. its possible you got a bad transmission.. there is no way to know but if the internal filter ends up clogged right away or the pan and magnet are full of metal then its likely the allison 2000 is worn out..
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 02:29 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,411
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the other thing which I think you took care of since you said it does want to lurch forward sometimes is Torque converter engagement to the pump. i am assuming when you did the install you installed the converter on the trans and gently rotated it till it engaged the pump gear.. you can feel as the converter "kuchunks" back into the trans.



then you install trans and converter together into the bus and not how far you pull the converter out toward the front before it engages the flywheel surface. shouldnt be more than 1/4" or 3/8" of an inch.. if its more than a 1/2 to 3/4" its possible your converter isnt grabbing the pump gear well enough to spin and make line pressure..



since your bus does want to move forward sometimes I tend to think more like a shift misadjustment or low fluid
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 02:35 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
Thank you so much for your reply I will keep you posted as soon as I check some of the stuff.
Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 12:59 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Pretty much what I was also going to say about it.

Try all the above and report back


also would love to see some more photos and notes on the swap

there are many others following closely these threads and it behooves us to try our best in skoolie spirit to give as much tech as we can on these builds.

There is another thread that a fellow basically posted he "did it" and that was about it... kinda a bit of a let down eh?

I have questions since you said the donor caught fire?

you got the green plugs up at the ECM connected, so I am assuming you have the TCM all sorted?

have to do any converting of the sensor plugs? or were there adapters as on mine

yes more input if you could would be an awesome thing to do

good job on the swap, sorry you had to end up driveshaft shortening.. I dunno how I was lucky to not have the issue on a vista

cheers
RolesvilleMarina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 02:47 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,411
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina View Post
Pretty much what I was also going to say about it.

Try all the above and report back


also would love to see some more photos and notes on the swap

there are many others following closely these threads and it behooves us to try our best in skoolie spirit to give as much tech as we can on these builds.

There is another thread that a fellow basically posted he "did it" and that was about it... kinda a bit of a let down eh?

I have questions since you said the donor caught fire?

you got the green plugs up at the ECM connected, so I am assuming you have the TCM all sorted?

have to do any converting of the sensor plugs? or were there adapters as on mine

yes more input if you could would be an awesome thing to do

good job on the swap, sorry you had to end up driveshaft shortening.. I dunno how I was lucky to not have the issue on a vista

cheers



didnt you swap driveshafts across or did you just get lucky and had plenty of length?
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 04:32 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
didnt you swap driveshafts across or did you just get lucky and had plenty of length?
No, I was lucky and the Vista shaft just bolted right back up in place... I always thought that was a bit odd, but so is the Vista

Same with the donor bus, the AT545 slipped right back into place without any mods where the 2000 was

I believe I was simply lucky... on a lot of it to be perfectly honest when it came down to that last bit with the plug
RolesvilleMarina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2021, 09:51 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
I think I got it

So I really appreciate all the response I think I have the first problem Ironed out...... just a dumb move on my part, I had the wrong fluid and not enough of it somehow all the fluid got drained out maybe during transport. so that lead to almost no fluid in the trans even after we added some.So I drained what little was in there of the wrong stuff and dropped the pan i cleaned it and installed a new pan filter then a new spin on and began to fill it with the right transynd. I put 8 quarts in it and it was already doing better then I added the last gallon I bought in to put it up to 12 quarts and it moved foward with no throttle !! I was so happy I knowI need roughly 2 more quarts, but I have to drive over to Ohio to get it noone has it near me. thank you all for the help I haven't driven it yet very far because I finished last night at 11:30pm. Thank you I will keep you posted

Now I am dealing with insurance issues I had my old skoolie insured thru allstate then I sold it due to rust and let my policy expire when I went back yestarday they said they don't insure RVs or skoolies anymore..... the state of pennsylvania sucks lol
Geico will only do it if it was professionally built by a company
and I am waiting on a call back from all of these.
safco.
progressive local agent
national general

Anyone had luck in Pa insuring a homebuilt skoolie ???
Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2021, 10:05 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,411
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Don’t drive it far till you get the throttle sorted out as it won’t lock up, so it will get hot fast
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 05:30 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
What would make it not shift after I fixed the throttle
Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:04 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,411
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
you almost need to get the check trans light fixed to see if the transmission is trying to limp or not.. staying in the same gear is a sign of limp mode. either a TCM error or no power to the TCM at all.



it is all important to make sure there is a BAT (all time 12 volt) and the ignition switched 12 volts to the TCM
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:16 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
Ok I bought a blue fire and hooked it up and it showed nothing on the engine side at all so i went out to the green yellow and black plug and found the yellow and green were rubbed thru so I fixed those and where do I check power at the tcu
Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 07:31 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Year: 1999
I found the main power wires to the TCM hot all the time and it is good 103a pink wire I just need to locate the switched wire and check that. Would it be in the plug that went thru the firewall?
Dieselwrenchturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 01:02 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselwrenchturner View Post
I found the main power wires to the TCM hot all the time and it is good 103a pink wire I just need to locate the switched wire and check that. Would it be in the plug that went thru the firewall?
pics would help

on mine pink was a 13a was a key on switched power to the TCM

the larger wires under the bus POWER the TCM

the little pink wire was just 12v telling the TCM to turn on... those large wires ALWAYS have power

we could use more info, and photos if you want help with this

as diverdude is missing part of his harness is his issue

we don't know if you are as well
RolesvilleMarina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 07:54 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Yes!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina View Post
pics would help

on mine pink was a 13a was a key on switched power to the TCM

the larger wires under the bus POWER the TCM

the little pink wire was just 12v telling the TCM to turn on... those large wires ALWAYS have power

we could use more info, and photos if you want help with this

as diverdude is missing part of his harness is his issue

we don't know if you are as well
This is the info I need! Iím missing the keyed power and check trans. Iím gonna look tomorrow!

Where does the ignition power connect to once through the firewall?

I used a local rep from State Farm and insured as a private bus. Hope that helps. Not expensive.
Diverdude0075 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 08:14 PM   #16
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Oh and I believe for check trans green 125 comes off the tcm harness and should go to blue 62k in cab. Of course these could vary bus to bus but is a good starting point. If mines different I’m screwed!
Diverdude0075 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 10:06 PM   #17
Bus Nut
 
sportyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 467
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
Do you have schematics for wtec3? If not I do but figuring out how to get them copied and moved to a place that I can download will be a challenge for me, and they aren't just 8.5x11, they are huge. Didn't someone have an address for some online? sportyrick
sportyrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 10:19 AM   #18
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
Oh and I believe for check trans green 125 comes off the tcm harness and should go to blue 62k in cab. Of course these could vary bus to bus but is a good starting point. If mines different Iím screwed!

Yes the pink one I ended up on my bus just slaving it to my antilock brake wire on that "mystery plug" in my dash (this is an IH plug, not allison) I probed it for Key on power and realized that this was powering up the ABS system, so now it does double duty to the TCM. Again this 12v source to the TCM pulls little to nothing in the form of amps, it is basically just once the TCM sees 12v here it powers up and begins to do TCM stuff... otherwise without this power on signal it would stay on all the time and drain batteries.


The green 125 is the TCM sending the ground signal for the Check engine light

on your bus it may be blue 62k, it was on the donor

on the vista it went to brown 92A I think

but yes this is the check trans light...

it is very possible your limp mode is coming from the fact without 13E pink (which is an IH wire code, not allison, but it is "Electronic transmission" and on the donor was a 12v key on. so if your TCM is not "on" then yeah it will limp I imagine

report back... god I hope we've got it sorted with this news
RolesvilleMarina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 10:21 AM   #19
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 481
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
Do you have schematics for wtec3? If not I do but figuring out how to get them copied and moved to a place that I can download will be a challenge for me, and they aren't just 8.5x11, they are huge. Didn't someone have an address for some online? sportyrick
I think I sent Diverdude the Allison TCM pinout that Allison sent me...

if so can ya email it back.. was lost on the laptop... and also share it with OP ?

cheers
RolesvilleMarina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 02:00 PM   #20
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 129
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina View Post
I think I sent Diverdude the Allison TCM pinout that Allison sent me...

if so can ya email it back.. was lost on the laptop... and also share it with OP ?

cheers
Sent to your email. Lemme know if you need me to check for anything else.
Diverdude0075 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.