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Old 04-16-2020, 01:33 PM   #1
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Auxilary Fans for Extra Engine Cooling???

Here's my idea to help cool the engine:


The old AC on the bus was under the body and had six fans to cool the AC condenser radiator things. I took out all that nonsense and saved the fans.


My idea is to use four, or even all six, of those fans, to help get hot air out of the engine compartment when I am going up hill, when it's really hot, or otherwise dealing with extra heat production.


I would cut holes (and create covers for winter temperatures) in the hood to allow for the extra air flow. Then, when needed, I can turn the fans on with an inboard switch.



Trying to decide whether to make the fans blow in, or out.



Idea 1: Pushing air in from the top down would maybe help pushing hot air out and under, but my concern is that this would really be fighting the forced air from the engine fan and be either useless, or even create some weird vortex of heat in there.


Idea 2: Two fans on top of the hood, and two one each side, pulling air out. I believe this setup would create a good air flow pulling heat out of the engine compartment.



This is assuming these fans produce enough air flow to make a difference. If they don't, maybe just one big fan: an actual electric radiator fan, on top of the hood pulling air out.


Any input?
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:44 PM   #2
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if you are concerned about keeping the engine cool, install an auxilliary radiator


you have the one inch heater lines coming off of the engine that you could T an aux radiator off of and even use electric valves. your aux radiator could be mounted under the bus. when you are in hot weather you kick those valves open and the fans on for the aux radiator.. (your heater valves would go downstream so they could remain closed)..



seems better than doing something like cut holes in the hood.. arent those hoods cowl induction where you mess up your intake airflow by cutting into them?
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:36 PM   #3
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What's the point of the fix? Are you suffering from overheating?

Truthfully, it sounds like an over complicated solution just to use the ac fans you removed.

If you are overheating, flush the radiator and wash the fins on the exterior too. Use of a coil cleaner on the outside can be helpful too. I'd then make sure that your current fan clutch is operating correctly. Maybe see if it's adjustable and lower the activation temp on it just a bit. If you're really ambitious, you can install an electromagnetic clutch and have it activated by both a temperature switch and a manual switch. Flip on the manual switch when you know a big hill is coming.

If you're not overheating, then why mess with it? If you want to move air from underneath, there are passive fail-safe ways to do that like using an NACA duct and tubing in the windstream. Some have even noted gains in under hood air flow by adjusting the hood stops to give a gap at the rear.
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
if you are concerned about keeping the engine cool, install an auxilliary radiator you have the one inch heater lines coming off of the engine that you could T an aux radiator off of and even use electric valves. your aux radiator could be mounted under the bus. when you are in hot weather you kick those valves open and the fans on for the aux radiator.. (your heater valves would go downstream so they could remain closed)..
seems better than doing something like cut holes in the hood.. arent those hoods cowl induction where you mess up your intake airflow by cutting into them?

What you're saying makes sense. I had brought up the extra radiator idea once, but someone said it was pointless. Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere.

I even started a thread about it. My idea was to mount the extra radiator above the windshield in a custom cowl sort of like the overhang on a class C or super-C. Figured it would be good to keep the extra radiator up high where it's cooler. Wonder if the coolant flow would be affected with the elevation of a radiator though.


Any input on what to use as an auxiliary radiator? Does it have to be diesel specific, or can it be an aftermarket one from about any vehicle?





And thank you for the suggestion!
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:31 PM   #5
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What's the point of the fix? Are you suffering from overheating?
Truthfully, it sounds like an over complicated solution just to use the ac fans you removed.
If you are overheating, flush the radiator and wash the fins on the exterior too. Use of a coil cleaner on the outside can be helpful too. I'd then make sure that your current fan clutch is operating correctly. Maybe see if it's adjustable and lower the activation temp on it just a bit. If you're really ambitious, you can install an electromagnetic clutch and have it activated by both a temperature switch and a manual switch. Flip on the manual switch when you know a big hill is coming.

If you're not overheating, then why mess with it? If you want to move air from underneath, there are passive fail-safe ways to do that like using an NACA duct and tubing in the windstream. Some have even noted gains in under hood air flow by adjusting the hood stops to give a gap at the rear.

Thanks for the advice!!!

My overheating is due to a bad fan clutch. I'm going to replace it with a Horton setup, which is an electromagnetic clutch system. However, I want to take extra measures to prevent overheating, since I will be traveling up mountain grades and also sometimes across desert areas.

When climbing mountain grades, it's slow going and its really just the fan making airflow.


I'll have to look into that NACA duct idea so I can wrap my head around how it would work on the bus. Looks like its a pretty straight forward DIY project.



I may also add an auxiliary radiator with cut off valves and it's own fan.

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Old 04-16-2020, 05:37 PM   #6
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im not a fan of the up high thing.. bug magnet to say the least.. along with some of that heat will end up in the cabin.. which will be rather roasty anyway if you pulled out the Air-conditioning..



I was thinking under the bus at an angle.. similar to how the original Air-conditioners were mounted, pull air in from the side of the skirt.. blow it out the bottom..



fans on the bottom means its pretty well protected from road grime and rock-fly..

as for how effective is an aux radiator? well when I firt got my little bus it had a fan clutch that only ran at minimum speed.. stayed nice N cool in town but on the highway had that slow up-creep of temperature.. I opened the heater valve and turned the Buss's 3 heaters on high.. temp gauge stayed at 210 in texas / florida heat.. I on the other hand damn near suffered a heat stroke doing it but hey got me home..
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:41 PM   #7
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Trying to figure out the NACA concept. Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but it doesn't make sense at the moment. Is it supposed to suck air out of the engine compartment using low pressure with the opening pointing back, or force it in with the oening pointing forward?
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Old 04-16-2020, 08:26 PM   #8
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Between this and your other thread re: your fan clutch.

Cheapest quickest way to solve engine airflow is to remove the hood.
If you're still running hot at 60mph with no hood NOTHING about your fan is the problem...

I'm not familiar with these split rad / intercooler setups -- must be a slow speed school bus only thing?

Find a full size radiator to replace your undersized oem radiator.

You will have a much more reliable rig if you re-engineer your intercooler plumbing somehow than adding an additional radiator -- and for sure don't put one above the windshield -- way too vulnerable for a system you need.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:24 PM   #9
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Between this and your other thread re: your fan clutch.

Cheapest quickest way to solve engine airflow is to remove the hood.
If you're still running hot at 60mph with no hood NOTHING about your fan is the problem...

I'm not familiar with these split rad / intercooler setups -- must be a slow speed school bus only thing?
Find a full size radiator to replace your undersized oem radiator.
You will have a much more reliable rig if you re-engineer your intercooler plumbing somehow than adding an additional radiator -- and for sure don't put one above the windshield -- way too vulnerable for a system you need.

How would I re-engineer the intercooler plumbing? Wouldn't it be simpler and more reliable to keep the system as it is and add a second radiator in line with the cutoff valve?
Still, if rerouting the intercooler is better, I'm open to ideas.


Should the intercooler maybe have its own radiator-like the AC or an oil cooler has a small radiator in front of the standard one?



If I put the radiator up top, it would be concealed and protected by a cowl, like the overhang in a class c and super c. It would also have a screen to keep bugs out.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:30 PM   #10
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I keep thinking about what banman said: to get a full size radiator and reroute the intercooler.


The bus really does have a tiny radiator with that weird half and half design.
If the intercooler needs a radiator, wouldn't it make sense to have its own, dedicated radiator?


Would it make sense to use a small radiator for the intercooler-maybe from a car, and put it in front of the regular radiator like the oil coolers go?
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:23 AM   #11
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Would one of these be sufficient? I think one of these would be easier to install than jury-rigging air-conditioning fans would be.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I26TNO2
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Old 04-17-2020, 07:55 AM   #12
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Would one of these be sufficient? I think one of these would be easier to install than jury-rigging air-conditioning fans would be.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I26TNO2



Yeah. If I do a second radiator, that would be perfect.


My idea with the other fans was to evacuate air from the engine bay.
Now I need to look at maybe adding those NACA vent things.
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Old 04-17-2020, 08:56 AM   #13
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Trying to figure out the NACA concept. Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but it doesn't make sense at the moment. Is it supposed to suck air out of the engine compartment using low pressure with the opening pointing back, or force it in with the oening pointing forward?
Either. They simply create vacuum or pressure depending on the orientation. I suggested this because a few of these on the side of your bus can route a lot of air underneath or back out. Using them and an auxiliary radiator could create a passive cooling scenario that might have worked out well.

But You have to be going through the air. So if you're going slow up a mountain grade, these things wouldn't be nearly as effective. That's where mechanical fans come into play.

Truthfully, I'd fix your clutch. If you're still having problems I'd then go to a full height radiator and intercooler design.

You do that by sourcing a truck salvage yard and finding a 4600 with the parts. It should be a pretty simple swap between the two.

They installed the half and half design because it was cheaper and sufficient.

Oh, and a second radiator up high sounds like an air inducing nightmare. All air in a system travels to it's highest point, currently it's your expansion tank, but with a radiator up high, it would be that radiator. So bleed valves up there would be necessary, and you'd have to constantly check them or air lock will happen and the thing will become useless.

I wouldn't do that unless you absolutely had to.
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Old 04-17-2020, 09:01 AM   #14
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You do that by sourcing a truck salvage yard and finding a 4600 with the parts. It should be a pretty simple swap between the two.
At least I think that's was determined to work. Do a search on here for it. Several members were searching at that time. Maybe one of them will pop in and say for certain.
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Old 04-17-2020, 09:28 AM   #15
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What's the point of the fix? Are you suffering from overheating?



If you want to move air from underneath, there are passive fail-safe ways to do that like using an NACA duct and tubing in the windstream. Some have even noted gains in under hood air flow by adjusting the hood stops to give a gap at the rear.

I was wondering about doing this on our Vista to reduce dog house heat, using some kind of tube or scoop under the bus.


Also wondering if there is any benefit (for any bus) in adding a hood scoop?

And at that point there was a friendly debate on my FB about whether the scoop should face forward or backward, as I asked how to keep rain out.
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Old 04-17-2020, 09:31 AM   #16
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I keep thinking about what banman said: to get a full size radiator and reroute the intercooler.


The bus really does have a tiny radiator with that weird half and half design.
If the intercooler needs a radiator, wouldn't it make sense to have its own, dedicated radiator?


Would it make sense to use a small radiator for the intercooler-maybe from a car, and put it in front of the regular radiator like the oil coolers go?
I have the same setup, but I don't have the physical room to go with two separate...

I also had at one point thought I had to change my radiator for an unrelated issue (leaking trans cooler lines) and I had to price one... $800+

yikes
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:04 AM   #17
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Joe.. one question.. are you even sure you have a temperature problem?? put on the new fan clutch and go run the bus.. I can say for sure that the E450 clutch cools better than even a brand new adjusted viscous clutch.. so start there and then re-assess
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:23 AM   #18
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I was wondering about doing this on our Vista to reduce dog house heat, using some kind of tube or scoop under the bus.


Also wondering if there is any benefit (for any bus) in adding a hood scoop?

And at that point there was a friendly debate on my FB about whether the scoop should face forward or backward, as I asked how to keep rain out.
Idk if I'd do something under the bus, I'd be fearful of rocks, road debris, and especially snow/slush in the winter time. The latter might not be a problem in NC though.

Hood scoops and their effectiveness all depend on the air flow around the vehicle. If it's in a low pressure area, it's useless. However, at the cowl area of most windshields there is typically a high pressure area, which is why some scoops work better facing backwards.

I'd have to look under your hood to determine the best/easiest way to route air to the dog house. Most bumpers typically have holes in them that could be utilized, and that being up front would be a good place to source air from.
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Old 04-17-2020, 02:52 PM   #19
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Idk if I'd do something under the bus, I'd be fearful of rocks, road debris, and especially snow/slush in the winter time. The latter might not be a problem in NC though.

Hood scoops and their effectiveness all depend on the air flow around the vehicle. If it's in a low pressure area, it's useless. However, at the cowl area of most windshields there is typically a high pressure area, which is why some scoops work better facing backwards.

I'd have to look under your hood to determine the best/easiest way to route air to the dog house. Most bumpers typically have holes in them that could be utilized, and that being up front would be a good place to source air from.

Interesting. My bumper does have holes in it.

So I'd run tubing, like the stuff used for washer exhausts, from the holes in the bumper up into the engine compartment? I guess that would force a good amount of air up around the engine.
An opening at the top of the hood would then allow the air to escape.


Maybe making a couple of "cones" in front to those bumper holes to collect more air would help as well.
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Old 04-17-2020, 02:58 PM   #20
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Tubing that is smooth inside will have less resistance to airflow, so it would be good to use as much of that as you can instead of the regular material usually used for dryer vents..
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