Best engine and tranny

PB612 · 12-26-2020, 11:31 AM

Hi!

I own a 1996 International 3600, short nose.

I actually have a T444e and AT545.

I’m looking to swap the engine and transmission, I’m looking for the most powerful engine I can fit in there and the best tranny that would fit with this said engine.

What are you guys thinking?

Ps: don’t tell me to get an other bus with better mountain capability, il keeping this one 😁

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 11:52 AM

Detroit 6v71TA with a manual trans.

PB612 · 12-26-2020, 12:07 PM

Any preference in tranny? I need something mountain capable.

Does that engine would fit in a short nose?

cadillackid · 12-26-2020, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB612

Hi!

I own a 1996 International 3600, short nose.

I actually have a T444e and AT545.

I’m looking to swap the engine and transmission, I’m looking for the most powerful engine I can fit in there and the best tranny that would fit with this said engine.

What are you guys thinking?

Ps: don’t tell me to get an other bus with better mountain capability, il keeping this one 😁

turn up the 444E and put a BUILT (suncoast or defeo) allison 1000 behind it.. swap to the later computers for proper J1939 and then get the Orion tuner when it comes out..

PB612 · 12-26-2020, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

turn up the 444E and put a BUILT (suncoast or defeo) allison 1000 behind it.. swap to the later computers for proper J1939 and then get the Orion tuner when it comes out..

I need a new engine anyway, the one I got now is dying, years of not moving and bad treatment

cadillackid · 12-26-2020, 12:18 PM

then look for a P-pumped mechanical NGD DT466 mechanical.. lots of room for turning those up and they will fit the chassis easily.. nothing anything close to innovative tranny wise for mechanical engines though.. I guess some kind of stick shift otherwise its a non OD 4 speed auto (MT643).. the electronic transmissions with double overdrive do best with electronic engines

Brad_SwiftFur · 12-26-2020, 12:45 PM

I mean, if you are going to repower the bus and want maximum power, why not Go Big or Go Home? Why not an ISX Cummins cranked up to about 600 horsepower? A big Cat 3406 engine or similar? A 60-series Detroit? Any of those big Class 8 tractor-trailer engines?

Chris is right though, a properly tuned T444 will generate a lot more power than the stock one will, and you can consider replacing yours ... advantage is you won't have to engineer anything, it will all be original engineering. If you have the split radiator setup, you may want to swap to a full size radiator. Question becomes, how much power do you want/need?

PB612 · 12-26-2020, 01:04 PM

I just want the most powerful one that can fit under that short nose with the best tranny that can go with. I need to drive on mountain passes with ease ��

PB612 · 12-26-2020, 01:14 PM

What do you guys think about this? I’ve just asked what model of tranny is

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233706338923

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB612

Any preference in tranny? I need something mountain capable.

Does that engine would fit in a short nose?

it'll fit. Go for a badass tranny... with more than 5 forward gears.

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I mean, if you are going to repower the bus and want maximum power, why not Go Big or Go Home? Why not an ISX Cummins cranked up to about 600 horsepower? A big Cat 3406 engine or similar? A 60-series Detroit? Any of those big Class 8 tractor-trailer engines?

Chris is right though, a properly tuned T444 will generate a lot more power than the stock one will, and you can consider replacing yours ... advantage is you won't have to engineer anything, it will all be original engineering. If you have the split radiator setup, you may want to swap to a full size radiator. Question becomes, how much power do you want/need?

I don't think any of those BIG engines would fit into a medium duty chassis without a lot of shoe-horning. Hell- a DT requires a doghouse on a CE just as it is. But I agree- if swapping I'd go with something more substantial than a regular school bus engine.
I do know I've seen a 6v71 swapped into a skoolie, though.

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

then look for a P-pumped mechanical NGD DT466 mechanical.. lots of room for turning those up and they will fit the chassis easily.. nothing anything close to innovative tranny wise for mechanical engines though.. I guess some kind of stick shift otherwise its a non OD 4 speed auto (MT643).. the electronic transmissions with double overdrive do best with electronic engines

The NGD was often paired with 3060's wasn't it?

BeNimble · 12-26-2020, 01:29 PM

I suggest you go the other way, reduce the weight of your rig has more effect than a bigger engine going up/down hills.

Rwnielsen · 12-26-2020, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Detroit 6v71TA with a manual trans.

That would rock

Willie_McCoy · 12-26-2020, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Detroit 6v71TA with a manual trans.

Seconded!!!!! Put a Roadranger 10 or 13 behind it too!

cadillackid · 12-26-2020, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

The NGD was often paired with 3060's wasn't it?

WTEC II and it sucked at being intuitive to your driving style.. slow downshifts on hills, early upshifts.. nothing like a true WTEC III and above integration..

as for the 444E, I havent had mine in the rockies. but just stock with an allison 1000 I haul ass up the jellico and mionteagle passes at 65 MPH.. only weak link is the split rad which is most certainly alterable..

and with something like the orion. and some bigger injectors you can definitely make a 444E do the job.. theres a lot of aftermarket power-adding suport for it..

if you keep the old 3-box system and use a mchanical transmission then you can use many of the early Gen 1 ford tuners..

I suppose if the 444E is truly worn out then it makes sense to do an engine swap vs rebuild a 444E.. but if its just injectors, turbo, etc that needs swapped then upgrade and make it go fast

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

WTEC II and it sucked at being intuitive to your driving style.. slow downshifts on hills, early upshifts.. nothing like a true WTEC III and above integration..

as for the 444E, I havent had mine in the rockies. but just stock with an allison 1000 I haul ass up the jellico and mionteagle passes at 65 MPH.. only weak link is the split rad which is most certainly alterable..

and with something like the orion. and some bigger injectors you can definitely make a 444E do the job.. theres a lot of aftermarket power-adding suport for it..

if you keep the old 3-box system and use a mchanical transmission then you can use many of the early Gen 1 ford tuners..

I suppose if the 444E is truly worn out then it makes sense to do an engine swap vs rebuild a 444E.. but if its just injectors, turbo, etc that needs swapped then upgrade and make it go fast

I'm not technically minded enough to understand much of that, but I do know that a 3060 will work with a mechanical engine with a TPS, right? I think by the time NGD's were being spec'd many probably were paired to 3060's.

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 02:59 PM

One sweet setup we've not seen on the forum is the elusive CE with 8.3 Cummins.

cadillackid · 12-26-2020, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I'm not technically minded enough to understand much of that, but I do know that a 3060 will work with a mechanical engine with a TPS, right? I think by the time NGD's were being spec'd many probably were paired to 3060's.

yeah all they had was throttle data.. no true engine loading data or torque data or kickdown request data, etc just throttle.. did it work? yep.. did it work seamlessly? NOPE..

it had as bad shift manners as a 643 or 545 on a mechanical engine..

dont get me wrong i love my 643 but its not near as intuitive or accurate as my allison 1000.. that allison 1000 shifts perfectly with the program i have in it.. when i need a downshift i get it.. when i need an upshift i get it.. no lugging, no over-revving, no slow shifts, .... my allison 1000 sucked before i got the J1939 data integration set up right..

build what you want its not my bus.. i built the bus that works right for me...

EastCoastCB · 12-26-2020, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

yeah all they had was throttle data.. no true engine loading data or torque data or kickdown request data, etc just throttle.. did it work? yep.. did it work seamlessly? NOPE..

it had as bad shift manners as a 643 or 545 on a mechanical engine..

dont get me wrong i love my 643 but its not near as intuitive or accurate as my allison 1000.. that allison 1000 shifts perfectly with the program i have in it.. when i need a downshift i get it.. when i need an upshift i get it.. no lugging, no over-revving, no slow shifts, .... my allison 1000 sucked before i got the J1939 data integration set up right..

build what you want its not my bus.. i built the bus that works right for me...

wouldn't a less than perfect but still factory 3060 with double OD be preferable to a 643? a NGD adn 3060 would sure be awesome to replace a 444/545, imo.

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