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Old 11-25-2020, 05:07 PM   #1
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Best way to add power to t444e

I have a 96 model 3800 t444e 35'with the 175hp tune. Im talking to the international dealer here in raleigh about changing the tube to 210hp. They were telling me that the turbo and injectors were the same so they didn't see a problem. They qupted 2 hrs for the procedure.

My question is whats the avenue I should go down. I would like to try and get 210hp minimum for towing my rock crawler in the mountains should I look at putting injectors in it and then get it tuned? Or just get it tuned? Also what's the hp rating for the factory injectors? And help would be great. I stalked around for a while and searched, but havent really found a answer
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:36 PM   #2
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The dealership HP bump will be the best upgrade you can do! Next would be exhaust upgrades and other tweaks. More info.........

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Old 11-25-2020, 06:40 PM   #3
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Is that your shop Johnny? I am jealous! Looks like an acre of a building!
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:10 PM   #4
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if you are near columbus ohio i can run it up as high as you want (up to 250).. but I cant say what will happen to the transmission. doing that..



im in a beta test progfram for a new power-adder for the navistar 444E / 466E. yours is old enough you may be able to buy a tuner for it as is since it is the older 3-box computers.. Power-Hungry-Performance I believe makes one already for that engine.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:17 PM   #5
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im in a beta test progfram for a new power-adder for the navistar 444E / 466E. yours is old enough you may be able to buy a tuner for it as is since it is the older 3-box computers.. Power-Hungry-Performance I believe makes one already for that engine.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm this is interesting information! Mind sharing the details Christopher?
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maligator. View Post
im in a beta test progfram for a new power-adder for the navistar 444E / 466E. yours is old enough you may be able to buy a tuner for it as is since it is the older 3-box computers.. Power-Hungry-Performance I believe makes one already for that engine.
Hmmm this is interesting information! Mind sharing the details Christopher?[/QUOTE]




there is a thread on here about it. the manufacturer, power Hungry Performance is releasing a product called Orion for tuning up the Gen-2 (97-03(04 for T444E)) navistar engines.



this is great news as they will also be releasing at some point the ability to write complete custom tunes as well with their minotaur product. which means things like Bigger injectors, big turbos, like the powerstroke guys do will be a reality on the navistar side. that elusive 500HP / 1000 ft lb school bus might become a reality for an experienced engine builder and the right parts.. !
PHP is a well regarded manufacturer on the Powerstroke 7.3 / 6.0 forums and groups.. of course the T444E is where the Ford 7.3 came from so there is lots of history and knowledge already present for the tunes behind this product.



im looking forward to it!
-Christopher
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post

im in a beta test progfram for a new power-adder for the navistar 444E / 466E. yours is old enough you may be able to buy a tuner for it as is since it is the older 3-box computers.. Power-Hungry-Performance I believe makes one already for that engine.
You have the Beta software stuff now?

I hadn't heard any updates... also likely I just wasn't chosen too

if so how is it?
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Old 12-05-2020, 11:38 AM   #8
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Dying to hear as well. I must not have been chosen either. Bummer. I was really looking forward to testing the tuner....

John
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Old 12-05-2020, 12:28 PM   #9
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I spoke with Dr tuners and it seems as though thats the route I should take for adding 60 hp tow tune. Im also looking at shaping the 1000 trans asap as well.
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Old 12-05-2020, 06:58 PM   #10
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I have my Beta device, we are srtill waiting on the software installer to be finished, I believe he is sending devices out in stages so just because you dont have one yet doesnt mean you are not chosen it may just be a little later.. my guess is they dont want to make a whiole bunch of units only to find a hardware flaw.
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Old 12-05-2020, 07:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing grace View Post
I spoke with Dr tuners and it seems as though thats the route I should take for adding 60 hp tow tune. Im also looking at shaping the 1000 trans asap as well.

for programming my allison 1000 I used a 4th gen A41 TCM I bought from jason at transmissiontuners dot com.. it is programmable by EFIlive.. so it can be directly tuned.. do br aware if you have never tuned an allison before that you need to learn before you start adjusting shift timings and shift feel, as well as adjusting shift points. there are multiple throttle maps for the T444E and they greatly affect ther allison.. and the allison needs to be tuned for the throttle map you are using or you will burn it up.



thrttle regulation type 0 is more prevalent in engines prior to 02, and the 03/04 mostly all got type 2.. type 0 is more linear in how it brings upomn the power, while type 2 brings on the power much quicker in the map.



I switched mine from type 0 to type 2 and i didnt like it as the pedal was real touchy about bounching on an air seat


plus I had a much tougher time getting the allison not to flare the 3-4 shift.. I had to bring on the C2 Dangerously quick after calling the C3 to release.. the adaptive learn didint seem to want to auto learn the shift quality on that one very well.. I had the Apply pressure way up there on the C2 going into 4th.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:15 AM   #12
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Hi Christopher, I have a related question that you’re probably most qualified to answer. I have my 2000 transmission with low mileage. I need convincing one way or the other to rebuild or not. If the answer is rebuild, could your typical good local trany shop handle it? Thanks!
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:52 PM   #13
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What trans do you have?
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing grace View Post
What trans do you have?

I have an allison 1000
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Old 12-12-2020, 08:05 PM   #15
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Orion reflash system?
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Old 12-14-2020, 11:00 AM   #16
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OK

M and I had the pleasure of meeting Amazing Grace this weekend. They live 10 min up the lane from us.

Nice folks, and after seeing his shop and the rock crawlers he builds we will just say he's got skills.. so fabbing things up is no problem and he's now my new best friend as he has a plasma table cnc so jelly!!

So here is where we are, and looking for you lads to chime in.

Goal was to achieve highway speeds cheap as possible. RE-gearing the rear end is out, he goes up mountains and tows a 2 axle trailer with a rock buggy. AT545 is a bad choice. (edit: also the rear end ratio is at this time unknown... he is finding out from IH)


His bus is a 1995, and the ECM DOES NOT have J139 connections to the TCM. So this would mean we would have to get an Allison 2000 to run stand alone and I have already advised him to count me out for the three laptops ride.

He has an Allison 1000 but it is from a Humvee. No TCM or anything else. and being a 4x4 it has a transfer case as well as the bell is wrong.

Bus is gutted and ready to start the interior build, but other than a tow hitch, rooftop AC, and a rear view cam is not sufficiently far enough into the conversion its not too late IMHO to bail and sell it and get another chassis.

I advised how I did it, and how much I saved vs buying the components needed a la carte

I think the bus, in today's market, he could keep his rooftop AC and the things he collected to do the build, and could fetch around $3500 for a blank bus ready to build.

He could then likely find another 3800 chassis and without dayton wheels and a newer ecm for same money. Possibly even a 2002 bus with an A-2000 already, but at least a chassis ready for a A-2000 drop in with fewer headaches.

but of course the missus is attached to the bus so may have to keep and thats up to him.

I feel at least go with a newer chassis if you want to do the swap easier and cheaper. ANOTHER EDIT: His 1995 has juice brakes so he has to have that parking brake on the tail. Another reason I suggested newer chassis and AIR BRAKES which can also run his air tools.

However also at the last minute in our brainstorming and tossing ideas around I realized with HIS SKILLS in fabrication he could do an automatic to manual transmission swap and throw in an Eaton 10 and get the OD gears from that?

just tossing all the ideas around. We're totally going to help out, but I am leaning on going with the idea of a newer chassis vs trying to do an auto swap on a 95 ECM.

And without disclosing his personals he did get a smashing deal on the bus so a fair market price would be a good profit if he sold so he's already ahead there. (you know how I work by now lol)

oh and the deadline to get this done was July as there is a family trip planned and I would like to do what I can to make sure they achieve this.

and Merry Christmas

so lets hear your thoughts lads
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:12 PM   #17
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toss it and get another bus.. or make an allison 1000 / 2000 run standalone.. unless he doesnt mind constant shifting.. also watch that driveshaft speed.. if he is one of the unlucky ones with a 7.17 rear end then driveshaft speed is a real concern even if he did drop a 10 speed in it..


a 10 speed is a cool idea if you like to row gears constantly.. and i mean constantly going up and down mountains.. lots and lots of shifting.. some think its fun.. to me give me the auto unless its a sports car or a classic that i only drive now and then..



of course building it is very doable.. plenty of 4000 series IH came with manuals so finding the bits to add pedals, clutch, etc is easy in a boneyard.. I believe there was an SAE2 version of a 10 speed made, and there were definitely manuals sold on 444E so getting a flywheel instead of flexplate very doable too..


P.S. I have a standalone throttle box built for a 444E laying around in my garage somewhere.. ill never use it.. it takes the TPS from the pedwal wires and turns it into J1939.. I didnt like it because it didnt work with cruise control and didnt send the full kickdown and engine loading parameters through. in effect it took my nice 4th Gen allison and made it run like a WTEC II first gen.. using that meant I wouldnt have gotten to get "infamous" with rolesville for using my 3 laptops


anyway if anyone wants it I'll send it to ya..
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post

I wouldnt have gotten to get "infamous" with rolesville for using my 3 laptops

Lol! Love ya brother

It is said with the utmost of awe and respect


good to know about driveshaft speed. nothing I ever would considered.

So in your expert opinion is there a rear end gearing cutoff that you would advise too much for A-2000/1000 swaps?

I am with you that at least getting the chassis with the harness ready to accept one is easier.

I dunno how many Laptops Amazing Grace is comfy with

Either way the Humvee trans is out. And whether the missus gives the ok to switch platforms only he can say.

If I had not had the J139's I likely would've dumped the vista in the end possibly. Hard to say, but stand alone I don't think I coulda pulled it off

oh and I like shifting lol
i am one of them nutters
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:21 PM   #19
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I appreciate the kind words Rolesville marina, Thats sounds awesome about the box. Ill message you. Im certainly not afraid of wires and harnesses. I just want to be able to get highway speeds is all and looking for an advice.
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing grace View Post
I appreciate the kind words Rolesville marina, Thats sounds awesome about the box. Ill message you. Im certainly not afraid of wires and harnesses. I just want to be able to get highway speeds is all and looking for an advice.
call IH and get the rear end

new chassis also gets bud wheels too though
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