Bullet proofing VT365

[Samarath]

We're almost done with New England and are preparing to head back home to Michigan. Before we head home, I am hoping to replace the oil cooler, EGR cooler, and whatever else makes sense while I have it apart. I am looking for wisdom and things to watch for so that I don't screw anything up, and I don't miss something else that I should have looked at or upgraded.

I am going with bulletproof diesel:
Oil Cooler upgrade kit (air cool)
EGR cooler (h-core)
Turbo oil supply and drain pipe
HPOP fitting
Icpr valve screen

You guys think this is a driveway job? Lol

Vt365
2007 IC CE 200

[cadillackid]

on a CE its probably a driveway job.. the oil cooler you need to have great Top access to the motor.. all things top will come off so you can get at it.. if you are going t otune it with an Orion then I would probably stud it too but stock Horsepower you probably dont need head studs..



be sure to inspect your turbo and its actuator.. make sure everything is nice and clean. . they are known to stick at times.. obviously note any current running issues.. check the Blowby before you start.. if its just a rather slow steady stream of blowby then you are still good on rings.. if you have a puff-puff-puff nautre wit hthe rhythm of the engine coming out of the blowby tube (if it has a CCV capture pull the oil cap while its idling fully warmed up after being driven and watch the blowby)..



puffing nature indicates good possibility of ring issues.. i mention it because a prior bad injector can cause ring seals to fail or pistons to crack..



the big thing with doing anjy engine work is dont let any metal / gasket pieces / tools / screws / debris drop down into the intake ports..

[Flying I 365]

Other things to watch out for besides blow by, checking the turbo, and turbo actuator. I would recommend putting in aftermarket ARP head studs even if the engine is still running stock horsepower for peace of mind (I say that because I have seen one VT365 in a 2007 CE200 blow head gaskets from bad head bolts. Stock bolts (if memory serves me) are TTY head bolts which offer precise clamping pressure but can stretch out)

Other things I would check are the EGR valve (clean it or replace if necessary) as it is a known failure point on the engine, and possibly the turbocharger downpipe to check for excess carbon buildup and clean it out of precaution. Excessive carbon deposits from the engine can lead to higher exhaust back pressure which can cause further engine problems. Checking the intake ports for carbon buildup from the EGR process might also be a good idea since the engine will be apart anyway. The VT365, like any engine needs ample air to breathe.

Oh, and I would check the oil for excessive metal flakes. Depending on mileage, an oil analysis wouldn’t be a bad idea to perform on the engine.

Hope this helps

[cadillackid]

great call on getting the oil tested.. that can tell you a lot.. not only about the bearings but the injectors too.. (fuel in the oil can indicate injectors dropping too much fuel... common HEUI engine issue)

[Flying I 365]

Compression check would also be another good test to do. It’ll help figure out cylinder issues and a source for blow by (if any is present) and it’ll also give you a baseline compression number per cylinder.

I know firsthand that if a VT365 loses compression on cylinders, it’ll get harder and harder to start.

Dead in one cylinder, the engine will still fire.
Two dead cylinders, it’ll struggle a lot to start.
Three dead cylinders, slim chance (if any) for it starting.
Four dead cylinders, no way the engine will fire. (An engine rebuild would be heavily advised at the engine dead on three or four cylinders)
Granted these scenarios depend heavily on which cylinders they are in the firing order.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Flying I 365

Compression check would also be another good test to do. It’ll help figure out cylinder issues and a source for blow by (if any is present) and it’ll also give you a baseline compression number per cylinder.

I know firsthand that if a VT365 loses compression on cylinders, it’ll get harder and harder to start.

Dead in one cylinder, the engine will still fire.
Two dead cylinders, it’ll struggle a lot to start.
Three dead cylinders, slim chance (if any) for it starting.
Four dead cylinders, no way the engine will fire. (An engine rebuild would be heavily advised at the engine dead on three or four cylinders)
Granted these scenarios depend heavily on which cylinders they are in the firing order.

any dead cylinders warrants an engine rebuild... otherwise you are sening fuel down a cylinder that isnt getting burned or not fully. and causing the oil to get contaminated making the engine life very short...

[Samarath]

I typed a nice long reply and lost it to the ether.

Thanks so much for the input.

The bus has been sitting for about six months with monthly warm ups. I filled it with 10w-30 over the winter. Since you guys mention blowby and injectors, I have seen cylinder balancing active on warm up, and so I will run some diag even though I'm about tapped from the other parts.

My intent:

Charge batteries
Warm up and check codes/blowby
Drain oil
Coolant (diesel tech Ron says something about a coolant system flush)
Install bpd upgrades
Turbo (new from a previous misdiagnosis...turned out to be the ECM)
Intake manifold - one guy says he brought his into a shop for a good cleaning. Couldn't hurt I guess
Fill fluids and test. (Diesel tech Ron primes everything by jumping the starter.)

Should I be trying to run an injector cleaner or anything? These steps seem proper?

And...oil testing. Send it to a lab huh?

[Flying I 365]

Originally Posted by Samarath

I typed a nice long reply and lost it to the ether.

Thanks so much for the input.

The bus has been sitting for about six months with monthly warm ups. I filled it with 10w-30 over the winter. Since you guys mention blowby and injectors, I have seen cylinder balancing active on warm up, and so I will run some diag even though I'm about tapped from the other parts.

My intent:

Charge batteries
Warm up and check codes/blowby
Drain oil
Coolant (diesel tech Ron says something about a coolant system flush)
Install bpd upgrades
Turbo (new from a previous misdiagnosis...turned out to be the ECM)
Intake manifold - one guy says he brought his into a shop for a good cleaning. Couldn't hurt I guess
Fill fluids and test. (Diesel tech Ron primes everything by jumping the starter.)

Should I be trying to run an injector cleaner or anything? These steps seem proper?

And...oil testing. Send it to a lab huh?

I would assume the bus was picked up secondhand from a school district or bus company, and they typically undergo a very thorough maintenance regimen. That being said, it’s a good idea to continue the maintenance regimen they used, as well as looking after the engine in more detail if it is a higher mileage unit.

Depending on mileage and coolant type. A coolant flush would be advised. I personally use the Peak Final Charge 50/50 premixed coolant in mine (and the bus company I bought mine from used the same stuff.)

Intake cleaning would be advised given how much carbon buildup I've seen from a VT365 after long usage however in your case that depends on the mileage of your bus and if the engine has ever been apart before. Wouldn’t hurt to get it cleaned as a precaution since the engine would already be apart for the bulletproofing modifications.

Oil testing and analysis does involve sending a sample of drained oil to a lab for testing. Results would come back pretty conclusive regarding metal content (if there is anything significant), oil content and composition, and if anything is in the oil that doesn’t belong, like fuel or coolant. Well worth the lab fees to get it done. Oil-wise, a good idea running 10W-30 in it for the winter months. Since I’m more in the northern reaches, I’ve had good success using 15W-40 in it for winters and when it ran in service, it ran pretty well on the 15W, though in the summer I was tempted to put in something thinner.

As for running injector cleaner, I would recommend it but that’s personal preference. A Diesel engine injector cleaner would do a pretty good job on the engine if the injectors were original or replaced some time ago.

[DuckTheBus]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/84...page=82#manual

I just replaced replaced our EGR and Oil Cooler last month. Definitely possible in the driveway! Do you have experience working on engines?

This was the first engine work I've ever done. Just look up youtube videos of people doing the work on Ford 6.0L. It is practically the exact same engine.

If you need help, PM and happy to help

[Samarath]

I'm getting pretty deep into this when I realize that the bulletproof diesel oil cooler doesn't have an oil supply port for my air compressor. Fun...

There's a 1/4" npt plug in the air/oil cooler that they say I can maybe tap into. You guys have suggestions for finding custom oil line, or recommend anything? On the original cooler it runs out of the filter housing, over the driver valve cover, and into the compressor. Now I have to get from the front of the radiator to the compressor.

[cadillackid]

most NAPA stores that have a machine shop can make you any custom hose you want.. give them the specs.. they have different fittings.. there are also usually ports other places on the engine to get an oil supply..


bulletproof makes an adapter where you can tap into the turbo supply port and pull off a custom oil line.. its something to look into to see if it would match up on your 365.

[Samarath]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

most NAPA stores that have a machine shop can make you any custom hose you want.. give them the specs.. they have different fittings.. there are also usually ports other places on the engine to get an oil supply..


bulletproof makes an adapter where you can tap into the turbo supply port and pull off a custom oil line.. its something to look into to see if it would match up on your 365.

Thabks so much! The NAPA guy had no problem throwing an oil line together for me.

I changed out the icpr rings and screen and updated the branch tube adapter. Last night I kind of had a little panic attack concerning the reinstallation of the HPOP. Because I've never done this, I guess I don't know exactly how the HPOP feels when it is seated properly with the teeth lined up. The bolts went in fine, and I torqued them down and threw on the cover, but now I have this overwhelming feeling similar to leaving the coffee pot on. I am going to grab new gaskets/seals for the HPOP, take the cover off and inspect it closer....maybe I can reach a phone back there to take pics of the gears to make sure they've matched up properly.

This is just a status update I guess, but wise words are always welcome. Thanks to everyone for everything.

[Samarath]

Current state

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Samarath

Current state

Super clean job from the looks of it.

Done about a dozen cab offs on the superduties for these engines.

As for bullet proofing, all I ever did was an EGR delete, replace Oil cooler and ARP headstuds.

[Samarath]

I've been working around rain and broken bolts, but I think I've almost got her back together. I need to figure out how to keep these lines from rubbing anything. I have some hardware, but my routing is a little different because they didn't account for the air compressor in this oil cooler upgrade kit.

This should be in order from front, driverside (cooled oil to engine and air compressor), and then passenger side (backwards from Air-to-oil cooler to new filter and then to the engine block outlet).

[Flying I 365]

The routing looks good (though my VT365 lacks an air compressor due to it having hydraulic brakes instead of air)

To keep the lines from rubbing against anything, I’d recommend a few things. Depending on the line material, I would recommend some plastic sheathing (the kind used to cover electrical wires) to cover the line. Said sheathing would be used as a sacrificial layer between the line and whatever it may rub up against. The engine will vibrate (as it typically does in service) from the rubber bushings and mounts holding it to the chassis so the lines may vibrate in different directions so covering the line would help prevent wearing through if it comes in contact with something.

Another recommendation is rubber isolators (like the ones already in use on the bus with the coolant lines) to keep the new lines away from other potential rubbing points on the lines.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

i use pieces of old water hose split and zip tied around any potential rub points.

[Samarath]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

i use pieces of old water hose split and zip tied around any potential rub points.

Thats a great idea. One line touches the turbo outlet piping to the cac, and I am not certain I am happy with one or two other places. I also finally got the programming from scangauge!

The BRA and BRB are the front and rear hydraulic brake circuit psi

[Samarath]

Originally Posted by Flying I 365

The routing looks good (though my VT365 lacks an air compressor due to it having hydraulic brakes instead of air)

To keep the lines from rubbing against anything, I’d recommend a few things. Depending on the line material, I would recommend some plastic sheathing (the kind used to cover electrical wires) to cover the line. Said sheathing would be used as a sacrificial layer between the line and whatever it may rub up against. The engine will vibrate (as it typically does in service) from the rubber bushings and mounts holding it to the chassis so the lines may vibrate in different directions so covering the line would help prevent wearing through if it comes in contact with something.

Another recommendation is rubber isolators (like the ones already in use on the bus with the coolant lines) to keep the new lines away from other potential rubbing points on the lines.

I really appreciate the input. Conceptually I know what to do, but I am beyond grateful that the modern age allows me to reach out like this. I also have hydraulic brakes, but I have an air ride seat and rear air bags. Also, my doors open with air.

[cadillackid]

im in the camp of using water hose.. I wrap everything that goes through frame rails or is on a vibration point.. wiring harnesses, A/C lines.. oil lines.. etc..



a couple places I have heater hoses wrapped with heater hose