Conversion from Dayton to Hub Centric Rear

Vapor Ghost · 03-14-2022, 08:45 AM

I want to go to Hub Centric... Fronts no problem.. So do I have to change the whole Rear Axel or just Hubs and Axels ?

Booyah45828 · 03-14-2022, 11:07 AM

Nobody here will be able to answer that, as nobody here knows what axles, year, or even bus that you have.

My advice is to talk to an older parts guy. At one time, buses used axles that could be had in an either set up, so the swap would be hubs/drums/and bearings. Regardless, it will require some searching to find the part numbers for the swap, and all that is axle manufacturer and model specific. It will also prove challenging to find the parts, as some of it hasn't been used in a while.

cadillackid · 03-14-2022, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Nobody here will be able to answer that, as nobody here knows what axles, year, or even bus that you have.

My advice is to talk to an older parts guy. At one time, buses used axles that could be had in an either set up, so the swap would be hubs/drums/and bearings. Regardless, it will require some searching to find the part numbers for the swap, and all that is axle manufacturer and model specific. It will also prove challenging to find the parts, as some of it hasn't been used in a while.

I seem to see a fair number of requests people wanting to do this? are there good reasons to do it? versus mounting tubeless single piece 22.5" rims on the dayton spoke hubs?

Booyah45828 · 03-14-2022, 02:12 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your guess is as good as mine.

Back in the day, fleets did it for commonality purposes, to have one rim fleet wide. It "can" be difficult to find someone to install/true the rim on a cast hub, as they take a little finesse to get it right and aren't as commonplace as they once were. But there are still people around who have the ability. So it's not like you'd be stuck if you did need it done.

Maybe if you want to use a fancy polished aluminum rim, and don't want to use simulators, you'd switch away from them.?

You're right though, it seems in the last month this question has been brought up numerous times, and I really don't know why. I don't recall seeing a bunch of buses equipped with cast spoke rims sold on gov deals as of late, but who knows.

mmoore6856 · 03-14-2022, 02:36 PM

after having pilot mount (hub centric) rims seize on the hubs i made sure i had dayton/cast wheels. they are still used over the road and are still a stronger wheel/hub set up (thats why cement trucks ran them so long ) i see no pros to those wheels and a 3/4 breaker bar and a 1 1/4 socket i can change my own easy

Spaznaut · 03-14-2022, 08:06 PM

You can but many can't and they can pop off and hurt someone. It is also more difficult to find tire places to work on them. If you break down and are okay with paying the tow to get the tire fixed then Daytons are just fine but if you are strapped for cash then it is easier to take off and remount hub centric. Unless your experienced in Daytons, remounting and centering will suck. If you have the cash to do the swap then just put it in the bank for a tow, it isn't cheap. Most Skoolie peps never make it to a second set of new tires mileage wise.

cadillackid · 03-15-2022, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaznaut

You can but many can't and they can pop off and hurt someone. It is also more difficult to find tire places to work on them. If you break down and are okay with paying the tow to get the tire fixed then Daytons are just fine but if you are strapped for cash then it is easier to take off and remount hub centric. Unless your experienced in Daytons, remounting and centering will suck. If you have the cash to do the swap then just put it in the bank for a tow, it isn't cheap. Most Skoolie peps never make it to a second set of new tires mileage wise.

I havent found a tire shop yet that wont work on dayton's.. remember not all daytons are split or retainer-ring rims. I have 22.5 tubeless single piece on my DEV bus and they run standard 11R22.5 tires.. many people think a dayton is a split rim but thats not necessarily the case.. there were split / retainer ring rims made for both dayton and disc type wheels.. as well as single piece 22.5" rims made for both..

Vapor Ghost · 03-19-2022, 07:34 PM

I want to change hubs on the rear of a 96 International 3800 . I like the idea of having a set up that most truck stop garages can work with be it wheels tires hubs bearings seals ect.. And dont like having to true wheels I also feel tire wear would be better in the long run with a fixed true setup..

La Camioneta · 03-20-2022, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaznaut

You can but many can't and they can pop off and hurt someone. It is also more difficult to find tire places to work on them. If you break down and are okay with paying the tow to get the tire fixed then Daytons are just fine but if you are strapped for cash then it is easier to take off and remount hub centric. Unless your experienced in Daytons, remounting and centering will suck. If you have the cash to do the swap then just put it in the bank for a tow, it isn't cheap. Most Skoolie peps never make it to a second set of new tires mileage wise.

Yeah you want to smack the duals with a hammer while the wedges are loose but not unbolted to release the kinetic energy from the clamps when removing.

Also a hammer with the handle sticking up makes truing easy, rotate the wheel and watch for wobbles. Replaced the split rims on my old Loadstar dump truck with 10/22.5 bus takeoffs, easy on and going from tube to radial cut the manual steering effort dramatically.

But this is the best advice:
If you have the cash to do the swap then just put it in the bank for a tow, it isn't cheap. Most Skoolie peps never make it to a second set of new tires mileage wise.

Vapor Ghost · 03-22-2022, 02:28 PM

I plan to wear out many sets of tires It's a Bus not a Yard Ornament..

sportyrick · 03-22-2022, 03:20 PM

LOL, nice reply vapor ghost. If cash is not a problem then the easiest way is to pull one hub, bring the whole mess to a good truck parts supplier and let them do the head scratchin. That worked best in my case on my 45 year old fronts but either end works the same. They can match up the needed parts (im thinkin just drums and lug nuts might do with new bearings, seals and axle gaskets) without worrying about a lot of specifics on the rear end. Then you can do the fronts to match and get rid of those ugly Daytons. I spent $6000 on 6 shiny new Alcoa wheels and quality tires. Specifically I bought Alcoa wheels with a special coating called "Dura-Brite" that never needs re-polishing (but don't let them buffalo you, look at the Alcoa label, blue is regular polish and black is dura-brite and they will try and talk you out of buying dura-brite). You may have to have them special ordered but it's worth the wait. All I have to do is dampen a rag and wipe down my wheels to look new, wonderful! Or they import a cheap Chinese version for a little over $200 if not worried about the lasting shine or where it was produced. Also an aluminum wheel is 50# lighter than steel (counting the spokes I'm sure daytons are close) and that's why all semi's run them, 50# x 18 = 900# less weight and more freight to charge for.
Get your info filled out please so we know more about your bus.

mmoore6856 · 03-22-2022, 09:22 PM

Used to be quite well known that aluminum wheels had only a 10 year lifespan. All aluminum wheels have a date or date code stamped into them for this reason. If you do not see it it has been buffed out so do not buy it. The cracks in these wheels are so hard to see a magnaflux or dynacheck is the only way to see them. I will stay with my tubeless Daytona as I have had the fun of beating seized pilot mount or hub centric as you refer to them by. Not fun and when you break a stud it involves removing the hub. I just weld a lug nut on the inside to the broken stud and wind it out with a Cresent wrench.

sportyrick · 03-23-2022, 09:53 AM

I just sold a set of 20 inch split rim Alcoa's from probably the 60's to a fellow who is refinishing them for his restored antique trucks. I ran them for 15 years w/o a problem. The picture from 2006 that is displayed when I reply here is showing my bus with the 20 inch Alcoa's on it. If run properly I think they are a good product and will last decades.

mmoore6856 · 03-23-2022, 04:04 PM

I would like to see a picture of the date code

mmoore6856 · 03-23-2022, 04:05 PM

Aluminum wheels from the 60s?????

Booyah45828 · 03-23-2022, 04:25 PM

FWIW a couple pallets of 8-8.25x22.5 used dayton rims went for 100-175 bucks a pallet.

sportyrick · 03-23-2022, 04:56 PM

I think I deleted all the pics after I sold the wheels. Maybe they were from the 70s but were old, most tire guys say they have never seen any, but I had a set, 10:00 20 split rims Alcoa's. I looked at my memory card and the pics have been deleted but if you go to my gallery you can plainly see the black powder coated ring on shiny Alcoa's. Just looked it up on internet and Alcoa made it's first aluminum wheels in 1948. And I thought I was old.

magnakansas · 03-23-2022, 07:45 PM

I saw some for sale last year. I think they were 7.5” wide, Might have been 6.75” wide, ten bolt big pattern. Set of six I think. Stud pilot. If memory serves correctly $100 each.

William

Vapor Ghost · 03-23-2022, 11:15 PM

Yeah Rick mine are 20's as well, will most likly just use 22.5 steel wheels. both for gearing and common tire and hub assembalies..That and a rebuilt Eaton 10 speed and I'll be on my way.. As far as I'm concerned synchros have no business in a manual transmission. They wear out your clutch and slow you down.

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