Crank, No Start

DamnitAddie · 01-22-2018, 05:13 PM

So I have a 2002 AmTran/International with the DT466. Bus started fine a couple days ago, let it high idle for 10-15 minutes while I was working on a couple interior things, shut it down, no big deal. It was in the 20's the other day, it's mid to upper 50's right now.

Today I attempted to start it, it just cranks and cranks and cranks, but it never fires. The fuel level is a bit low, it's indicating 1/4 tank on the dash, and the bus is parked nose down on a incline, so maybe fuel?

I checked a few fuses, etc.. no dice. Everything looks ok. Any quick suggestions as to what I might try? The engine cranks fine, I went ahead and threw a battery charger on there since I've cranked on it a bit..

Jdawgsfanasty · 01-22-2018, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnitAddie

So I have a 2002 AmTran/International with the DT466. Bus started fine a couple days ago, let it high idle for 10-15 minutes while I was working on a couple interior things, shut it down, no big deal. It was in the 20's the other day, it's mid to upper 50's right now.

Today I attempted to start it, it just cranks and cranks and cranks, but it never fires. The fuel level is a bit low, it's indicating 1/4 tank on the dash, and the bus is parked nose down on a incline, so maybe fuel?

I checked a few fuses, etc.. no dice. Everything looks ok. Any quick suggestions as to what I might try? The engine cranks fine, I went ahead and threw a battery charger on there since I've cranked on it a bit..

I'm hearing in the threads that 1/4 is too low...might have lost prime...there's another thread similar to this one

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Jolly Roger bus 223 · 01-22-2018, 06:17 PM

It actually depends on where your fuel pickup hoses are regardless of the fuel reading on a slope.
The fuel pic up could be on the high side of the tank and the unless guage on the forward/lower side of the tank?
An observation?
Most diesel vehicles require a semi level parking spot especially on low fuel.
Add 5-gallon to it and charge the batteries and see what happens.
Some need the injector lines broke loose to bleed and some pick it up?
That really depends on how much air your system picked up?
Look and see where your fuel pump pick up tube is in your system and make sure
You have enoug in your tank (regardless of slope) for it to pick up.
If your fuel pick up tube is at the uphill side of the tank and your guage is reading a 1/4
Just an observation?
Good luck

cadillackid · 01-22-2018, 08:43 PM

I havent looked at where the pickupos are in my navistar tanks as far as up and down.. but IO know my gauge stops reading when I get just below that last line .. the 1/4 line? it never reads any lower.. so I am guessing the fuel pickup isnt not much below that point...

-Christopher

DamnitAddie · 01-22-2018, 08:52 PM

So, I put 5 gallons in it, no dice. At the filter, I pushed in the schrader valve and I get fuel out of it, no huge pressure, but enough to coat my hand.

I'm kind of baffled, to be honest. To go from running great to not starting within a few days time. I'm going to leave the charger on there overnight, top off the batteries.. might throw another 5 gallons in there, just to be safe.

Jdawgsfanasty · 01-22-2018, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnitAddie

So, I put 5 gallons in it, no dice. At the filter, I pushed in the schrader valve and I get fuel out of it, no huge pressure, but enough to coat my hand.

I'm kind of baffled, to be honest. To go from running great to not starting within a few days time. I'm going to leave the charger on there overnight, top off the batteries.. might throw another 5 gallons in there, just to be safe.

Welcome to skoolieville...good luck

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rensch26 · 01-22-2018, 10:07 PM

I would definitely pump the fuel primer until it's firm. Fuel should squirt out of the schrader valve.

DamnitAddie · 01-23-2018, 08:07 AM

I will try that this evening. I hope that it's not an injection seal and the HPOP is keeping it from firing.

Tango · 01-23-2018, 09:41 AM

And be prepared to pump it for quite a while.

BlackJohn · 01-23-2018, 09:48 AM

You might want to check your fuel filter/water separator and drain. When your fuel gets that low your into the swamp.

John

DamnitAddie · 01-23-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango

And be prepared to pump it for quite a while.

Lol. Watched a video on YouTube this morning, it had an element style filter, whereas mine is a spin-on, but I assume the process is the same. Pump, bleed, pump, bleed, pump some more, etc etc.

If that doesn't work, sounds like the next step is to pull the oil pressure sensor plug. Wish I had a scanner for these, I've gotten spoiled by obd2

fabrini · 01-23-2018, 12:43 PM

I had the same problem with my T444E this summer. Ran great one minute, then just cranked and cranked and cranked.... I replaced the cam position sensor and nothing. Oil level was fine and fuel was coming from the shrader valve during cranking. My buddy is a bus mechanic. He brought his scan tool over and no codes. It would fire for a few seconds with starting fluid (yes I know this isn't good for my motor) but would die. I was telling my story to a friend at the local BP. An old timer was in there listening and he said that my coolant was low. It was, in fact, low. I added a gallon and it fired immediately and has ran perfectly ever since.

I don't know if the 466 is anything like the 444, but just a thought...it it's worth anything.

Jdawgsfanasty · 01-23-2018, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabrini

I had the same problem with my T444E this summer. Ran great one minute, then just cranked and cranked and cranked.... I replaced the cam position sensor and nothing. Oil level was fine and fuel was coming from the shrader valve during cranking. My buddy is a bus mechanic. He brought his scan tool over and no codes. It would fire for a few seconds with starting fluid (yes I know this isn't good for my motor) but would die. I was telling my story to a friend at the local BP. An old timer was in there listening and he said that my coolant was low. It was, in fact, low. I added a gallon and it fired immediately and has ran perfectly ever since.

I don't know if the 466 is anything like the 444, but just a thought...it it's worth anything.

A low-coolent shutdown sensor...great idea...thx for sharing...

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DamnitAddie · 01-23-2018, 01:02 PM

Will certainly check that as well. Thanks for the knowledge!

ShagNasty · 01-23-2018, 01:02 PM

I had a similar situation to this and come to find out it was the solenoid that supplies power to the ECU and all the pre start up sequence. Can be found in http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f49/20...tch-20402.html

When you turn the key to the on position do you have any indications of that pre-start sequence happening?

If not then probably the Body/Chassis solenoid not closing when the key is in on position.

My Bus 2002 Thomas those are located in the Electrical Panel outside the drivers window. I was able to get mine running by a very calibrated smack to the solenoid. Since replaced with new and works flawlessly.

DamnitAddie · 01-24-2018, 04:03 PM

To answer ShagNasty first, yes it seems all normal. I have been messing with the emergency door wiring, but it doesn't seem to impact the AmTrans the way some of the other buses react. I've driven the bus since then.

I think everyone's assumption that I've run it out of fuel is probably accurate. I've pumped and pumped that primer button and it never quite gets hard.

I climbed under the bus and located the water separator and it sucked some air for a bit.. or expelled some? Then I started getting diesel. I pumped it again for a bit, it doesn't seem to get getting hard. My primer is the button type, rather than the plunger style I've seen on YouTube most frequently.

I've not tried to start the bus since I opened the separator. What would be the suggested course of action at this point? Should I go ahead and put 5 more gallons of diesel in it and pump that button a couple hundred more times? I've not gotten any air out of that schrader valve, just fuel.

I'm fairly clueless when it comes to diesel stuff, but I'm not a total muppet... I've not had the bus long enough to know how the fuel gauge works. I should have known better to get it low, but honestly, I'm just poor.

DamnitAddie · 01-24-2018, 04:05 PM

Oh and the coolant level in the overflow is slightly below the add mark, but with it being cold, I don't know that it's low enough to need coolant, or that a sensor would prohibit the engine from running.

Jdawgsfanasty · 01-24-2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnitAddie

To answer ShagNasty first, yes it seems all normal. I have been messing with the emergency door wiring, but it doesn't seem to impact the AmTrans the way some of the other buses react. I've driven the bus since then.

I think everyone's assumption that I've run it out of fuel is probably accurate. I've pumped and pumped that primer button and it never quite gets hard.

I climbed under the bus and located the water separator and it sucked some air for a bit.. or expelled some? Then I started getting diesel. I pumped it again for a bit, it doesn't seem to get getting hard. My primer is the button type, rather than the plunger style I've seen on YouTube most frequently.

I've not tried to start the bus since I opened the separator. What would be the suggested course of action at this point? Should I go ahead and put 5 more gallons of diesel in it and pump that button a couple hundred more times? I've not gotten any air out of that schrader valve, just fuel.

I'm fairly clueless when it comes to diesel stuff, but I'm not a total muppet... I've not had the bus long enough to know how the fuel gauge works. I should have known better to get it low, but honestly, I'm just poor.

I know the poor part...:crying:...I've learned a lot from YT...diesel is the best fuel but damn cranky to deal with...I wish you a lot of luck...

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BlackJohn · 01-24-2018, 04:11 PM

Purging air takes a lot of patience and time. Did you get water at the fuel filter/separator?
Move up the line from there, you say you get fuel at the schrader valve, so keep going and loosen off the fuel line at the injection pump to check for fuel there. Get all the bubbles of air out there. Probably better to get a hand to pump while you check the line and close it when you get straight fuel.
You could add a 12v lift pump to feed fuel towards the engine to save pumping the bulb.

John

DamnitAddie · 01-24-2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Purging air takes a lot of patience and time. Did you get water at the fuel filter/separator?
Move up the line from there, you say you get fuel at the schrader valve, so keep going and loosen off the fuel line at the injection pump to check for fuel there. Get all the bubbles of air out there. Probably better to get a hand to pump while you check the line and close it when you get straight fuel.
You could add a 12v lift pump to feed fuel towards the engine to save pumping the bulb.

John

No water, just air and then fuel. I'll keep priming and see if I get air else where.

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