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Old 09-13-2021, 10:26 AM   #1
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DT 466E Stalling

Hey, Iím a newbie here and not a mechanic in any way.

I have a question about my 2003 International with a 5 speed Spicer manual transmission and DT 466E engine. I bought the bus last spring and have done the full conversion. Just recently itís been stalling a minute or so after it turns over. It idles at 6-700 and then it revs up a little then stalls out. It turns over every time after this happens though. After 6 or so times of cranking it over, it idles fine and runs great. Any ideas? A friend of mine said it might be a low-to-high idle issue (a module?). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Old 09-13-2021, 11:04 AM   #2
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Hey, Iím a newbie here and not a mechanic in any way.

I have a question about my 2003 International with a 5 speed Spicer manual transmission and DT 466E engine. I bought the bus last spring and have done the full conversion. Just recently itís been stalling a minute or so after it turns over. It idles at 6-700 and then it revs up a little then stalls out. It turns over every time after this happens though. After 6 or so times of cranking it over, it idles fine and runs great. Any ideas? A friend of mine said it might be a low-to-high idle issue (a module?). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
Interesting problem...

Does this only happen when you do a COLD start up?

Once it is running and reaches operating temp, if you shut it down does it start right back up?
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Old 09-13-2021, 11:07 AM   #3
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I think this is Johnny Mullet's link https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yqlcj5g9r...NTMISCOPES.zip See page 61 of EGES 175 for the instructions on pulling a code from the ecm. The switch it refers to is not going to be on the dash. Find the ecm diagnostic port (round with 6 or 9 holes). It should be located here. Post your results.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:46 PM   #4
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Hey, thanks for the tip. I tried the diagnostic test you suggested and I got the following results: (only the oil/water light flashed) it went 1,2,1,1,1,3. My understanding is that the first flash shows it starting and the 3 is that it ended. So the code is 2111? It also said to refer to EGED-185-2 for the list of codes. Not sure where that is.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:47 PM   #5
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Hey, thanks for the input. I haven’t tried that yet. That’s a good idea though. Appreciate it.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:57 PM   #6
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Hey, thanks for the tip. I tried the diagnostic test you suggested and I got the following results: (only the oil/water light flashed) it went 1,2,1,1,1,3. My understanding is that the first flash shows it starting and the 3 is that it ended. So the code is 2111? It also said to refer to EGED-185-2 for the list of codes. Not sure where that is.
I believe all the codes are 3-digit sequences, and they're all listed here: https://www.thedieselgarage.com/thre...de-list.25121/

Your two codes are:

121 - MAP Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure signal out-of-range high
113 - ECM PWR Electrical system voltage B+ out-of-range low
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:58 AM   #7
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if the MAP sensor is reading too high the computer will try to de-rate the enginbe fueling thinkling the boost is too high.. unplug the map sensor and see if it will run..



the low voltage code pops if the batteries have been run low pr the alternator is slow to start output after starting the engine.. usually nbot an issue
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:54 AM   #8
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Air in fuel.

You have an air leak somewhere on the suction side of the fuel system. It runs for a minute or so off the fuel in the secondary filter, then loads up with air and dies. After cranking for 6 or so times you finally have the fuel system primed again and it will start and run fine.

Let it sit for a dozen or so hours and the process will repeat.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:18 AM   #9
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Air in fuel.

You have an air leak somewhere on the suction side of the fuel system. It runs for a minute or so off the fuel in the secondary filter, then loads up with air and dies. After cranking for 6 or so times you finally have the fuel system primed again and it will start and run fine.

Let it sit for a dozen or so hours and the process will repeat.
That makes sense. Now that I think about it, it started happening after I had the bus at an RV repair shop to install the propane lines. Maybe they clipped something underneath? Is that where the suction side of the fuel system is located? Thanks for the advice
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Old 09-14-2021, 12:27 PM   #10
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That makes sense. Now that I think about it, it started happening after I had the bus at an RV repair shop to install the propane lines. Maybe they clipped something underneath? Is that where the suction side of the fuel system is located? Thanks for the advice
If they clipped something then you should detect a fuel leak somewhere or at least a wet fuel line. Air could also come from low fuel level, bad connection or a defective pick-up in the tank.


I think you need to address the active codes which could cause the surge as you described. This DT466E 530E DTC List (EGED185-1).pdf indicates a defective MAP sensor as the cause of the 121 code. It is on top of the valve cover close to the fire wall with a 3 wire harness.
I would also check the connectors attached to the side of engine mounted ecm for any rust or water for the 113 code. It could also be a bad power connection anywhere starting at the battery.
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Old 09-14-2021, 12:30 PM   #11
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That makes sense. Now that I think about it, it started happening after I had the bus at an RV repair shop to install the propane lines. Maybe they clipped something underneath? Is that where the suction side of the fuel system is located? Thanks for the advice
It's a possibility, but not very likely.

Fuel lines would be between the injection pump and the tank.

90% of the time we see the fuel primer pump as the culprit, but every once in a while a fitting will be leaking or a line abraded through.
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Old 09-14-2021, 01:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
I think you need to address the active codes which could cause the surge as you described. This Attachment 61271 indicates a defective MAP sensor as the cause of the 121 code. It is on top of the valve cover close to the fire wall with a 3 wire harness.
I would also check the connectors attached to the side of engine mounted ecm for any rust or water for the 113 code. It could also be a bad power connection anywhere starting at the battery.
Normally I'd agree with this. However,

A 121 wouldn't cause a no start for 6 consecutive cranks after it runs and then dies. It would repeatedly run and then die every crank. The 113 might cause it, as low ecm voltage can do all sorts of wonky things with an engine. Once again though, for it to run then die, and then run normal again after several attempts, I don't think the 113 would cause that.

Most of the time when I see a run, die, several cranks, and then run normal it's an air in fuel issue. And on a dt466e, most of your air in fuel issues are caused by the primer pump.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-14-2021, 02:58 PM   #13
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Normally I'd agree with this. However,

A 121 wouldn't cause a no start for 6 consecutive cranks after it runs and then dies. It would repeatedly run and then die every crank. The 113 might cause it, as low ecm voltage can do all sorts of wonky things with an engine. Once again though, for it to run then die, and then run normal again after several attempts, I don't think the 113 would cause that.

Most of the time when I see a run, die, several cranks, and then run normal it's an air in fuel issue. And on a dt466e, most of your air in fuel issues are caused by the primer pump.

Just my 2 cents.
Wasn't trying to discount your air in fuel related concern but I can see how one could think that. Shouldn't have related the no start to the map sensor. Recently I had a 12 valve 5.9 to die and take many attempts to restart due to a water separator sucking air.

Tuna75, you never spoke of any maintenance and so the fuel filter itself could be stopped up. There is a sediment screen on the filter base that can clog up. Just above it is a check ball that can deteriorate.
Not the best pic but it may help.
Primer-Pump-Seal-Kit-For-95-03-Navistar-DT466E.jpg
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:36 PM   #14
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Wasn't trying to discount your air in fuel related concern but I can see how one could think that. Shouldn't have related the no start to the map sensor. Recently I had a 12 valve 5.9 to die and take many attempts to restart due to a water separator sucking air.

Tuna75, you never spoke of any maintenance and so the fuel filter itself could be stopped up. There is a sediment screen on the filter base that can clog up. Just above it is a check ball that can deteriorate.
Not the best pic but it may help.
Attachment 61272
So I tried a few things today. Per one of the previous posts, I pulled the MAP sensor out and it still stalled out. I pulled the codes again and got different ones (212, 111). 212 is oil pressure so I checked the oil level. It was a bit low but I topped it up anyway. Still same issue. Then I pulled the 12V power off the recently installed 12V fuse block that the CO2 meter is connected to in case it had a short or something. Still same issue. Then I noticed a sticker on the dash saying to run it at 1250 rpm in cold weather. I’m in BC Canada and it’s only 10 degrees Celsius (not sure of the Fahrenheit equivalent) but it’s definitely not cold. I turned on the cruise control, revved it up to the suggested ‘cold weather’ rpm 1250 and when it sounded like it was going to stall again, it sputtered and blew black smoke for 5 secs and then started purring like a kitten. I let it run for a bit then shut it off. I turned it over again at the normal idle rpm 600 and it shut down again. Turned it over again, revved it to 1250-1400, and it sputtered for a few secs with the black smoke again, then purred like a kitten again. Seems like I’m starting to get somewhere. I really appreciate all your info and suggestions. There’s definitely a wealth of knowledge in this helpful and friendly community.
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Old 09-14-2021, 07:25 PM   #15
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Don't remove the MAP sensor. If anything unplug the wiring harness. If you rechecked codes and didn't get the 121 then move on. The 111 is "nothing wrong code". However the various intermittent codes may lead to loose connections at the ecm.

Refer back the fuel supply concerns. Make sure you have fuel, new fuel filter if you haven't changed it, check the screen and check ball. Then you can move on to checking for air infiltration, fuel pressure etc.
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:56 PM   #16
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Don't remove the MAP sensor. If anything unplug the wiring harness. If you rechecked codes and didn't get the 121 then move on. The 111 is "nothing wrong code". However the various intermittent codes may lead to loose connections at the ecm.

Refer back the fuel supply concerns. Make sure you have fuel, new fuel filter if you haven't changed it, check the screen and check ball. Then you can move on to checking for air infiltration, fuel pressure etc.
For sure. I did just pull the harness. ’I’ll check those things and let y’all know how it goes. Thanks so much again for the very informative suggestions.
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Old 09-15-2021, 04:56 PM   #17
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DT466E Hard / No Start diagnostics sheet

I found this on my computer, I hope you find it of some value.
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