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06-27-2024, 12:03 PM
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#1
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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DT466e Changing Coolant and Coolant Lines
I am in the process of flushing/changing my coolant, and on the advice of some of you in another thread, I figured now would be a good time to replace my coolant hoses. I’m probably going to have a few questions throughout this process, but to start…
In the attached photo, I have 3 hoses coming off the bottom of my radiator. But what confuses me is that Hose B is definitely a transmission line (I’ve changed it before, and it goes straight to the transmission fluid filter). But Hose A comes off right next to it, and (I think) is my lower radiator hose, which I figure I should change. Are these two hoses not actually attached to the same thing? Because it looks like they are, and I want to make sure if I disconnect Hose A that I won’t have transmission fluid pour out.
Additionally, is Hose C part of my cooling system too, and needing to be replaced? I can’t tell where it’s attached to or where it goes.
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06-27-2024, 12:19 PM
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#2
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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If it helps, Hose C appears to connect up to here.
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06-27-2024, 12:30 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 662
Coachwork: Busless for now
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Hose C is the return air hose from the intercooler to engine.
No danger of losing tranny fluid by removing hose A. Tranny fluid and coolant circulate through different heat exchange tubes inside the radiator.
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06-27-2024, 12:38 PM
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#4
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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Ok, cool. Thanks!
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06-28-2024, 08:54 AM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 942
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
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I second those thoughts, A is coolant, B is tranny cooler, C is from intercooler to engine, A is only one to replace unless you see splits or holes in C. A looks long so you have leverage to create problems with radiator if you get rough with it so remove clamp, cut the hose off, clean with scotchbrite, sand paper or wire brush then install new carefully.
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06-28-2024, 04:05 PM
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#6
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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I might end up not changing my hoses at this time after all. I’m at an RV park, and my lease is about to be up, and I think I’m biting off more than I can chew. I might have to just wait till a later time when I’m home to do it.
That said, I still need to do the coolant flush and replacement. I have flushed the radiator a bunch. But I’m having trouble getting it full again.
Explanation and question in video: https://youtu.be/ce7dPQwaNFU?feature=shared
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06-28-2024, 04:46 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 662
Coachwork: Busless for now
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Couple of thoughts after watching your video.
If you are filling the system with straight water for the flushing, it might be hard to tell if the coolant level is up to the sight glass or not because water is clear.
Are you actually driving the bus after adding water or just letting it idle after adding water? It needs to work a little bit to give the cooling system a workout.
I admit I know nothing about diesels. Smarter folks than me will contribute more info.
I would hold off on replacing the coolant until you can get home. But I don't know how far that is.
My method for burping cooling systems is to park facing uphill, run engine with radiator cap or recovery tank cap, whichever is higher, off. fill as much as possible. Then drive around a while. Let it sit and cool completely. check levels and repeat as needed.
This is after first adding the required proper coolant for a 50/50 mix and then topping off with distilled water.
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06-28-2024, 05:05 PM
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#8
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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I’m going to remove the sight glass to see what happens. If water is there, I guess I’ll know. I’ll also check to see how hard it is to really see through it.
I added water and idled it and revved the engine. I made sure to watch my temp gauge. I tried to keep it so the thermostat was open (190°). I kept it that way for about 30 minutes.
Home is about 1000 miles away.
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06-28-2024, 05:38 PM
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#9
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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I removed the sight glass. It is not dirty. There was no water or coolant inside it. Bone dry.
Once I removed the sight glass, I was then able to add more water through the fill tube. I added maybe half a gallon. Then the water started overflowing out of the fill tube again. After I did that, I could see some water inside the hole where the sight glass goes. But it still wasn’t high enough to reach the sight glass.
I still can’t get the level high enough to reach the sight glass.
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06-29-2024, 08:59 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 636
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeb2
I removed the sight glass. It is not dirty. There was no water or coolant inside it. Bone dry.
Once I removed the sight glass, I was then able to add more water through the fill tube. I added maybe half a gallon. Then the water started overflowing out of the fill tube again. After I did that, I could see some water inside the hole where the sight glass goes. But it still wasn’t high enough to reach the sight glass.
I still can’t get the level high enough to reach the sight glass.
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If you just take the small top hose off your rad, can you then add coolant.
I never worked on a flat nose bus, I've only seen one in the wild. Rare around here. Not sure if there is a bleed screw. Thinking it air locked?
Edit.....oh wait, you took the site glass out. The air lock is ruled out....
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10-10-2024, 07:50 PM
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#11
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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Resurrecting a dead thread…
I finished the coolant flush months ago and have since driven 1,000-2,000 miles. Important note: that coolant flush was me changing from green to orange coolant.
So, when I did that flush, I read online that these engines sometimes have coolant filters and sometimes do not. And that the only way to know for sure is to look around and see if you see a filter.
Well, I did that. But I don’t know if I’m blind or what. Because just now, while crawling under the engine for a different issue, I discovered that there is a coolant filter up somewhere I didn’t see it.
So, my next question is - What do I do about this now? I assume I should change the filter, but do I need to do anything about the fact that I have been running the engine and driving with the old filter on after changing the coolant?
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10-10-2024, 10:19 PM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 653
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
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It may be that the charge in the coolant filter was depleted. Someone else could tell you how to determine that. Maybe sca coolant test strips? Do you know which filter/part number that was installed? What is the current coolant
you have installed and what do they say about coolant filters?
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10-11-2024, 05:25 AM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 636
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus
It may be that the charge in the coolant filter was depleted. Someone else could tell you how to determine that. Maybe sca coolant test strips? Do you know which filter/part number that was installed? What is the current coolant
you have installed and what do they say about coolant filters?
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I will agree.
Find out the number on the filter and report back. Some coolant filters do not have a charge and are just filters.In your case likely not but is also long depleted.
What I remember you were probably running DCA for the additive. Any little DCA you may have in the system will deplete over time.
My personal opinion, run the coolant you have, change the filter to just a filter with no additive or install a cap in place of the filter.
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10-11-2024, 07:07 AM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,703
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnibot2000
I will agree.
Find out the number on the filter and report back. Some coolant filters do not have a charge and are just filters.In your case likely not but is also long depleted.
What I remember you were probably running DCA for the additive. Any little DCA you may have in the system will deplete over time.
My personal opinion, run the coolant you have, change the filter to just a filter with no additive or install a cap in place of the filter.
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Wouldn't his filter have already been flushed as well when he did the flushing? I would think he'd be fine as is at this point. The only concern would be the need to replace it if the filter has a lot of contaminants and needs changing but if not it may not be worth it to change it but if he does change it how much fluid are you going to lose and have to replace again in the process?
If you have a 2nd new filter already pre-filled, and were quick to swap, you might not lose much.
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10-11-2024, 09:50 AM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Full-Timers
Posts: 203
Year: 2001
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT-466e, AT-545
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Filter is number 24073.
I filled with Final Charge Pro Series.
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10-11-2024, 10:43 AM
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#16
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 653
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
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I feel that the sca/dca additives in the filter have long been depleted. You or the previous owner would have been required to add supplements to maintain the required levels. Any remaining levels were flushed out when you did the change. From what I read, the new coolant has tolerances for adding other coolants that may have some sca's.
You could replace the filter with a blank filter if it makes you fill better. Maybe Wix 24070. You may have the optional filter shut-off just above the filter for use when changing the filter. I didn't.
Additional links for your review since it may be hard to find someone that insist that the system needs flushing.
https://www.owi.com/commercial/brand...es-50-50-1-gal
https://www.owi.com/commercial/resou...ort/faqs?tab=1
https://www2.wixfilters.com/assets/I...3revFsheet.pdf
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10-11-2024, 10:46 AM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 636
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitis
Wouldn't his filter have already been flushed as well when he did the flushing? I would think he'd be fine as is at this point. The only concern would be the need to replace it if the filter has a lot of contaminants and needs changing but if not it may not be worth it to change it but if he does change it how much fluid are you going to lose and have to replace again in the process?
If you have a 2nd new filter already pre-filled, and were quick to swap, you might not lose much.
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The filters can come as a maintenance DCA filter or a pre charged filter. Regardless. The filter has DCA in it that slowly releases into the coolant. You may need to install a filter that does not come with DCA additive in it(blank filter) Some times blank filters are available.
Point is if there still is additive in the filter flushing or not, it will release that additive into his new coolant. Depending on how old the filter is the additive may be depleted in which it essentially becomes a blank filter.
Again, I don't think he needs to flush again.
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10-11-2024, 10:51 AM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 636
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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I checked Wix filter website. 24070 is a no chemical filter. If the center thread port is correct. That's a good choice.
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10-11-2024, 11:10 AM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,703
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 29
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Doesn't some of this matter if he's got a newer modern emissions engine?
You don't want DCA on older T444E's for example, but newer blocks seem to want the additives.
The pro series Final Charge has the additives. and use a filter with the charge in it.
If you want the one without additives for older engines, use the "Global series final charge" And a filter without the charge in it.
The additives on older blocks will cause cavitation sooner. I don't know which engines are at the cutoff though and I forget which one yours is.
If his needs the additives, I don't think he'll need to change it because you can still run without the additives.
But if you do have an older engine, that doesn't want the additives you may want to flush to get rid of the bad fluid, but the filter is a no charge so should be fine and not need to be changed.
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10-11-2024, 12:46 PM
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#20
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 636
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitis
Doesn't some of this matter if he's got a newer modern emissions engine?
You don't want DCA on older T444E's for example, but newer blocks seem to want the additives.
The pro series Final Charge has the additives. and use a filter with the charge in it.
If you want the one without additives for older engines, use the "Global series final charge" And a filter without the charge in it.
The additives on older blocks will cause cavitation sooner. I don't know which engines are at the cutoff though and I forget which one yours is.
If his needs the additives, I don't think he'll need to change it because you can still run without the additives.
But if you do have an older engine, that doesn't want the additives you may want to flush to get rid of the bad fluid, but the filter is a no charge so should be fine and not need to be changed.
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Your engine likely came with DCA/SCA (it's the same thing) package for cavitation. You should have a filter on your engine with a maintenance charge. DCA and SCA is old school. My 97 Ford has it and I check it with test strips. Back in the day there were a few that switched over to the ELC CAT antifreeze and reported injector cup leakage shortly after so I stayed with what I have. While my t444e in my bus has no filter and has the extended life.
The pro series coolant he has in the picture provided is a OAT CAT EC1 rated coolant that advertises to not having to add SCA to it. Furthermore it is generally recommended NOT to mix in DCA/SCA as it could adversely effect the the properties of his coolant he installed. The coolant he has protects against cavitation with out the additive.
In other words, he is protected with what he has and after a quick Google I do not see anything written that what his is using is compatible with the additive.
General rule of thumb. Pick one, don't mix it.
If you read the back of the jug, it says "Do Not Add SCA's"
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